121 replies to this topic

[dribble]

Is that popcorn ready?

[Dev]

[sixwheeler]

I can't comment on the article as not read it, but I can comment on the reply which I feel is quite revealing in anycase......

** Columns are meant to stir up controversy - so it obviously does its job

They are not 'meant' to stir up controversy; they can be used to do so and indeed, many of them do. From what I understand (and I will reserve judgement until read) the article was written in an ill-informed manner as opposed to a manner to create discusstion. This, from an author, seems to be a poor use of langauge.

** The man who says 'If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it' - would rather read a knitting pattern, The Holy Bible, or a Labour Party manifesto.

Well, I can't really say that your reply is entirley sensible but I do agree with the principle - you don't always have to say nice things. Again though, your reply does somewhat surprise me - I would expect an author to construct and phrase a slightly better reply than that.

** The radiator isn't in the inner wheelarch panel then ? Oh really - it all depends on what you mean by 'in' - for without a series of slots in the inner wheelarch panel, and the radiator right behind those slats, how on earth would it function ?

Now, you see, for someone that is involved in the world of cars, I really would have thought that the correct terminology wouldn't be beyond you; the panel you are refering to is the inner wing. The radiator is clearly not in the wheel arch and as far as the design of the car goes, the position is simply not an issue for a road vehicle. The car was never designed to be a rally car, simply modified to be one. Yes they could have done it differently, but lets not forget the design brief...

** A front-mounted radiator would not necessarily have needed an electric motor. I distinctly recall a transverse engine/front-drive Peugeot of a few years later , with a front-mounted radiator, which had a belt driven fan whose belt completed two 90-degree turns - and it worked.

But I doubt the car was quite so constrained by the design brief....

** I have probably driven more of the world's cars than ANORAK (including some which could exceed 170 - 180mph) so maybe I am allowed to bring a broad judgement to a topic ? How many different types of car has ANORAK driven ?

Again, your choice of words really does surpise me. Of course you are allowed to bring a broad judgement (well, I think you are), but from your responses here I can understand that the phasing and construction of your article may have been a little poor.

** If one of the respondents thinks I am not a good event commentator, how is that I am repeatedly hired for top-level International events, which include the Goodwood Festival of Speed, Race Retro, the MSA Norwich Union Classic Run, etc, etc, etc .... ?

** And, by inviitation, carried out motoring-themed lecture tours in the USA, in Australia, and in South Africa. In most cases, was asked to make several repeat visits, so someone must believe in me ...."

Well, I can't judge as I have not heard you. However, just because you (or anyone else for that matter) are hired for an event does not imply that the person hired is good at the job or knowlegdable on the subject at hand. It does imply, however, that you (or they) are a good commentator, have a general and broad knowledge of the subject area, probably have a certain charisma and as with most things, are known to do that sort of work so that is who is hired.

Not wanting to burst your bubble or say that you have not worked hard to earn your postion - which I am sure you have - but I have discovered in life that it is not necessarly those who can do the job or indeed have the knowledge to do the job, that actually get the. A lot of what we do in life is based on who we know, where where are, lucky turns and precident.

I do find your replies a little lacking and have to say, that if that is the standard of your work, I am not very inclined to buy the magazine and read your article!

Yay! Someone else in the same stable as me..!

Mr Robson is representing that magazine with his articles and he will be associated with that article to Mini enthusiasts, especially when the said magazine article is being discussed.

Therefore I think that some of Mr Robsons remarks are very childish and petty (coming from a t 20 year old) and has therefore now lowered my opinion of Mini Mag.

I love Mini Mag and because of Mr Robson's response (not his article, as I haven't yet read it, but I do not like it has he does seem to slate the mini every month) I almost feel tempted to stop my subscription. After all, if a snotty nose kid treats you like rubbish in a shop they work in, you don't go back to the shop.

That was his chance to fully justify what he was saying, and he blew it by being childish and competitve with Anorak.

Edited by sixwheeler, 20 November 2008 - 10:27 AM.

[Juju]

Thank you Sixwheeler. That's the kind of reasoned exchange that should be posted.

[jammiedodger26]

I'm glad that this is now a two-sided debate, it's definitely fair for Mr Robson to have his say. Although it does seem that he has thrown his toys out the pram a little bit!

As he suggests that coloumns are supposed to be controversial, surely he should not be surprised when people get agitated and debate the points he talks about! Maybe Anorak didn't go about it the best way, what with words like pillock etc but his point was valid none-the-less.

I look forward to reading the article and forming my own opinion on it!

[T.Harper]

Get over it, everyone!

[Ethel]

Yay, this is still going

Front vs side mounted rad - it's much easier to bend air through 90 degrees than it is a rubber belt with the added cost of pulleys, bearings and brackets sturdy enough to keep it tensioned. For efficient airflow through a radiator you need somewhere for the air to go once its passed through the core - if there's a dirty great big lump of cast iron just inches behind it that won't be easy to achieve. I know they managed it with the MPI, but at a price with a modern specification radiator, relocated engine ancillaries, and the loss of much of body drop over assembly. You'd also have needed to redesign the front end or add an expansion tank to keep the head full of water. More parts = more cost. As I understand it they only went to all that trouble because of noise regulations not because the old system wasn't up to the job of cooling the engine. Considering the power output of some tuned engines (compared to the 970cc unit on BMC's drawing board) that run with and without mechanical fans and an original or recored radiator the design is very impressive.

I don't think we can believe the folklore about the car been deliberately sold at a loss - It's a risky strategy that relies on the car breaking down to make a profit (surely an unreliable car will soon become a poor seller) and not losing that business to spurious parts manufacturers who undercut you. Lots of the Mini's components were common to other models so you'd have to restructure your whole business anyway.

Fair play to Juju for giving Mr Robson the opportunity to answer his critics, even if his arguments display a fair degree of pillockry

[sazal]

But if the radiator was at the front, where would they put the electrics, rubber glove companies would have gone out of business years ago?!

[alicetheauto]

How the hell else would he have got a radiator in the car? Waterpump off the alternator belt, nice and simple, oil pump off the waterpump, nice and simple, so bolt the rad on the side where the fan can blow across it? Maybe on the un-released mini replacement with the redesigned alloy motor he would have had a front-mounted rad (somehow?), but dont forget that although the bodyshell and gearbox were revolutionary the running gear was basically BMC parts bin stuff. The orientation of the fan would have been a MASSIVE issue to alter, to the engine block. Also, this guy may be relating any cooling issues with running a Mini in modern traffic. In 1957 no-one ever imagined there would be 25MILLION cars on the roads, and the jams this would cause!!
Rant over......

[Ethel]

If you are expecting to drive at low speeds and need to run a fan then the location of the radiator becomes less important and a permanently driven, mechanical fan is less of liability.

[Dev]

the mini did have a front mounted rad it worked, didn't require constant fanage... mpi.... it was the future.

[minivanman]

the mini did have a front mounted rad it worked, didn't require constant fanage... mpi.... it was the future.

They were kinda lacking in the eckletronics and radiator design department back in 59 though Dev, which I guess is why they didnt build an mpi first off. I think even if the clubby had had a front mount rad it would have made maintenence a pig. For the era, budget and design brief it was the perfect solution. And because it works, they never bothered changing it. Makes perfect sense to me....

[THE ANORAK]

flipping heck, even I've got over it now

anyway, i would have to quote this reply as "hitting the nail on the head", and my use of the word pillock was in-fact my attempt at using a less offensive insult... i could of used "" for example

I'm glad that this is now a two-sided debate, it's definitely fair for Mr Robson to have his say. Although it does seem that he has thrown his toys out the pram a little bit!

As he suggests that coloumns are supposed to be controversial, surely he should not be surprised when people get agitated and debate the points he talks about! Maybe Anorak didn't go about it the best way, what with words like pillock etc but his point was valid none-the-less.

I look forward to reading the article and forming my own opinion on it!

some thing else that has annoyed me now though..... whats the point of coming on to a topic and claiming it should be closed simply because you dont find it to your liking, and then contributing nothing to it other than pointless and unfunny pictures.

if you not interested in the topic... dont read it. as so many of you seem happy to give this advise out to me maybe you should do the same

also, i'm thinking that maybe i should change my forum name, seeing as 50% of the people on here actually believe it represents my belief that i know everything about minis.

i have never claimed to know every thing about minis. many other people have claimed that i do. the term is in-fact meant to be a dig at myself for having a rather sad interest in the rather trivial side of mini production.

Anorak like this.....



not like this.....

[Shifty]

Am I too late with the pop-corn, sorry guys there was a queue.

[MGMT]

I hope the guy who wrote the article didnt read this..as hes probly in tears now. I bet he was fully chuffed about writing an article for a mag lol