41 replies to this topic

[998dave]

Taking my mum as an example, (divoced mother of three).

She had three boys, all within 4 years of each other, (and all my Dad's - thank you)...

She done night courses to learn to type.
When the smallest got to school age she got a job as a school secretary, only working 9-3, and allowed her to pick u up if necessary.
If we were ill she could take us into work, the school also put her through a first aid course.

She carried on like this until we were old enough to get home on our own, then changed to working a local 9-5 job again as a secretary. Now doing an OU course in the evenings and weekends.

Now graduated my mum's earning over twice what she did before, owns her own house, and managed to bring three boys up without issues. She's also got a lovely man living with her and they can afford to enjoy themselves.

Within all this she made all three of us go to school, take paper rounds and saturday jobs, and two out of three went to university.

I'm proud of my mum for what she's managed to do, and glad she's now happy and secure.
Now if she can achieve all this, then why do other people get away with moaning they can't find a job.

[Ethel]

[/quote]
The companies dont realy benifit that much. They get a person into employment,dont tax them untill they have paid back the money owed to the taxpayer and hopefuly give them some pride in themselves despite it being burger king. At least they are paying back the tax payer. Thats something.
[/quote]

..except for guaranteed recruitment regardless of how the position stacks up in the free job market and a very big stick to hold over their employees, in the threat of prison or starving.

[Jammy]

O.K not a mature response but....can anyone say gigantic wood chipper? Feed em' in!

I was just about to comment on how refreshing it is to see a topic being discussed so maturely on TMF!

I see what you're saying Ethel, but I look at it like this; what would these people be doing if there was this very generous benefit system in place? If countless other people can come from the same situation and get themselves out of it through sheer determination and hard work, why can't others!? I think the benefit system has been abused too much in the last 20 years, and now it's time for something radically different.

I think at this point someone needs to do some research on here to find out exactly what changes are being proposed.

[The Matt]

I've got to say, I've ALWAYS thought that the benefits system in this country is pap. It jsut seems like there's not enough motivation for people to go out and actively seek employment.

There are people that I've spoken to about it who are currently claiming. I've asked them what they'd want to do if they could find a job and one of them just stated he'd rather just stay on the 'rock and roll' than work again, it's easier and he's got no responsibilities!

[Ethel]

You're right to be proud of your mum. Unfortunately I don't think there'd ever be any prospect of Karen Matthews, or many others in her situation learning to type and even if she did you can't employ all the single mums off a sink estate in the local school.

Ensure they get paid enough stacking shelves or sweeping floors to earn more than they would for getting up the duff again, provide affordable childcare (also an opportunity to employ some) and help them on to the housing ladder so they have the same mobility and financial opportunities as the rest of us we can dismantle the sink estates and forget about employing an army of "welfare to work" enforcers as they wouldn't be needed.

[The Matt]

The reason the conversation came about was after I'd told them about a job going on the shop floor at our place ages ago, IIRC it was for like £6.50 an hour, unskilled labour work, but real easy. They weren't interested in it, hence the "what would you want to do if you could find work" question.

It's a joke!

There are countless examples of people that I've met that just aren't interested in working. Oddly they've all got better cars than me, they all have massive plasma TVs and Sky TV and they all go out on the beer more than I can afford to!

[Jammy]

Ensure they get paid enough stacking shelves or sweeping floors to earn more than they would for getting up the duff again, provide affordable childcare (also an opportunity to employ some) and help them on to the housing ladder so they have the same mobility and financial opportunities as the rest of us we can dismantle the sink estates and forget about employing an army of "welfare to work" enforcers as they wouldn't be needed.

So based on the banded about figure that KM was earning £30k on benefits are you implying that she should get paid a similar figure for stacking shelves or sweeping floors? I say she gets too much on benefits and that they should only supplement a wage, and a wage that she could get now by going into any job centre, swallowing some pride and doing a bit of hard work for a few months until she was better qualified/skilled and could take up a better job.

[Ethel]

It'll be on the Guardian or Times site no doubt may even be on Gordon Broon's site in detail (maybe not).

Shorter benefit entitlement periods for single parents & some "action plan" nonsense for when their entitlement ends.

An attempt to force more stringent tests on incapacity benefit claimants - Docs will have to certify fit to work rather than not.

All to be sidesteppable (new word I invented) by signing up for some interminable training programme or other that has tax payers forking out to some private educashun provider as well stumping up for the benefits.

[Ethel]

Ensure they get paid enough stacking shelves or sweeping floors to earn more than they would for getting up the duff again, provide affordable childcare (also an opportunity to employ some) and help them on to the housing ladder so they have the same mobility and financial opportunities as the rest of us we can dismantle the sink estates and forget about employing an army of "welfare to work" enforcers as they wouldn't be needed.

So based on the banded about figure that KM was earning £30k on benefits are you implying that she should get paid a similar figure for stacking shelves or sweeping floors? I say she gets too much on benefits and that they should only supplement a wage, and a wage that she could get now by going into any job centre, swallowing some pride and doing a bit of hard work for a few months until she was better qualified/skilled and could take up a better job.

We'll always need shelf stackers so what's wrong with closing the widening gap between the top and bottom earners with a bit of wealth redistribution? Maybe 30k is too much, I don't know how the figure was arrived at. I think it would take more than a few months to train someone of KM's reported academic abilities and even if you could, you'd still need that shelf stacker to put your Cocoapops out.
It's not like Tescos & Asda don't make enough to stand a higher wage - not that either are bad employers compared too many. We could also subsidise a higher minimum wage for employers whose business would be damaged by paying higher wages - means testing, of course, to make sure they aren't making too much profit by exploiting their workers.

[Jammy]

I like to think that generally most wages set themselves naturally. On the whole, if an industry isn't offering enough for a certain job then not many people will bother applying for it, creating a demand for those workers and thus those workers can demand a higher wage...

[Ethel]

I really can't see any evidence of market forces being at work in The City where they've collapsed the market through lining their own pockets. Unless you're prepared to accept people starving on the streets, the state has to intervene at some point. As it already does, taking your taxes to pay KM's welfare benefits. At least the council estate pondies recycle your taxes in the UK on Special Brew, pizza & scratch cards - you get bugger all off the city banker's when they buy a 2nd home in Provence or take up residence in a tax haven like Monaco.

James Beresford & Douglas Smith, now there are some real parasites if you want some whipping boys to get stuck in to.

[nurseholliday]

I met someone at a party who worked on the counter for Liverpool Benefits and Housing. Some of the stories he told me were ridiculous, he made sure nobody used the loopholes, but apparently his colleagues weren't so good at their jobs...