18 replies to this topic

[Minitrio]

Model:MPI
Year:1997
Description of problem (please be as in depth as possible):
Whats the advantage of Adjustable Tie Rod Bars?

One of mine is bent, so wanted to know if buying the Adjustable version is worth the extra expenditure and is there any downside to them?

Cheers

[blacktulip]

its only really worth it for fast road use or a track car, just stops them from flexing too much thus giving a more accurate steer. plus you get the added bonus of being able to tune part of the suspension geometry if any tweaks are needed.

[Saxo-Fiesta-Mini]

the main advantage is when paired with camber arms to get 100% tracking although u can achieve the same with laser tracking gear but i found i needed to have the tyres resting on bricks to get the kit to fit the 12" wheels lol

[MRA]

The adjustable tie bars are usually heavier duty, this is to reduce flex and the issues associated with flexing of the tie bars, such as torque steer and weeve under braking.

If you expect to do some "heavy duty" driving then yes they are an advantage, as a bonus, they also allow for castor angle changes and corrections due to changing the camber angles.

[MRA]

A down side is that if you fit negative camber bottom arms or adjustable bottom arms then you will also almost always need to fit the longer steering tie rods to make the system safe.

If you are not going to change the camber angle (bottom of the wheel is in or outboard of the top of the wheel) then you don't really need to spend your money on HD or rose jointed tie bars.

[MRA]

the main advantage is when paired with camber arms to get 100% tracking although u can achieve the same with laser tracking gear but i found i needed to have the tyres resting on bricks to get the kit to fit the 12" wheels lol

Sorry SAXO FIESTA MINI, but without them you can still get 100% tracking ! did you mean tracking or suspension geometry, ie Castor, Camber, Tracking, KPI etc..... ?

[Saxo-Fiesta-Mini]

i Meant with the camber arms fitted as was my understanding when u fit cambers arms adjustes the angle

i got 100% trackin on mine without them as i said using laser alignment tools

[MRA]

Hi Saxo Fiesta Mini,

Did you mean that camber adjustment, will require your tracking to be "re-adjusted" ? This is very true, you may also need to readjust your castor angle to bring it within the required setting parameters, and therefore this is a main reason for adjustable tiebars.

However I would be concerned if you fitted Negative bottom arms but did not fit longer steering track rod ends ??? This could be very dangerous.... Or have I got the wrong end of the stick here ?

[icklemini]

Whats the advantage of Adjustable Tie Rod Bars?

They are stronger, usually cheaper than standard rover replacement bars, and allow the castor angle to be adjusted/corrected.

The can be fitted without any other adjustable part and once setup can make the car feel a lot better.

Usually they are fitted with neg camber arms, and it this circumstance both front camber and castor can be setup as necessary.

Tracking is totally different to geometry... Although adjusting the castor angle (via the tie-rod), or camber angle (via the bottom arm), will upset the front wheel tracking.

Yes it is advised to fit longer track-rod ends to the steering rack track rods when going down a fully adjustable/modified camber/castor route.

Because of the tolerancies involved in these cars, a fully adjustable front and rear end often transforms the car.

Coupled with Adjustable height (Hi-Los), the cornerweights can be tweaked increasing the handling of the car.

I use a combination of Dunlop geometry and Laser 4 wheel alignment gear to set these things up, with longare corner weight scales..

HTH,
Dave

[MRA]

Negative and lowered WILL require longer steering tie rod ends its a must ?? I have seen numerous occasions where people have not fitted them and they are being held together by a few thread turns, this is simply not enough to be safe...

[Ethel]

"Any thread needs as much length as width engaged" - i.e a 10mm thread should be screwed in 10mm, is a useful rough guide. Obviously a HT steel bolt would be stronger than an aluminium casting it was screwed in to so would need more engagement to reach it's yield tension before it stripped the threads out of the casting. I'd expect a steering track rod will be stronger than a track rod end.

[Minitrio]

So will this help towards correcting my front wheel position? They both kick out at the bottom and i have excessive wear on the inside of the tyres. The offside more than near side, near side bar is bent up. The suspension is lowered spax adjustables, put on by previous owner. I'm intending to fit hi lo's as well.

[MRA]

"Any thread needs as much length as width engaged" - i.e a 10mm thread should be screwed in 10mm, is a useful rough guide. Obviously a HT steel bolt would be stronger than an aluminium casting it was screwed in to so would need more engagement to reach it's yield tension before it stripped the threads out of the casting. I'd expect a steering track rod will be stronger than a track rod end.

I would agree with this information, primarily the track rod end is also of a lower grade material, and most probably a cut thread not a rolled thread which also makes them weaker....

Also when only help together by a few threads the stiffness of the "system" is inherently weaker and subject to shock loading..... bumps in roads being a classic example or even a modern example judging by the standard of our roads today.

[MRA]

So will this help towards correcting my front wheel position? They both kick out at the bottom and i have excessive wear on the inside of the tyres. The offside more than near side, near side bar is bent up. The suspension is lowered spax adjustables, put on by previous owner. I'm intending to fit hi lo's as well.

Ok looking from the front if the wheels are out board at the bottom this is called negative camber, positive camber being in at the top, castor is the angle through the centre line of the top and bottom ball joints as viewed from the side, ie if the top is leading the bottom then its called negative castor, if the top trails the bottom this is positive castor.....

Tie bars will correct (by adjustment) any castor inaccuracies but WILL NOT correct camber this is what you are describing that your car has.... front wheels are wider at the bottom and leaning in towards the centre line of your car....

Longer bottom arms or or lowering the car will give you this, I would strongly suggest you get the bits that you want and the "time / cost" to get it put on a four wheel alignment and geometry machine.

[Minitrio]

Cheers MRA-Mini.

Would this kit MSSK3014 (Sorry couldn't get link to work) from Minispares, with Hi-Lo's fitted, sort my front wheel issue's?