11 replies to this topic

[backspace]

Hi all

Can you help me decide. I have a MK3 shell that's complete but needs work (rust ) But have been offered a MK1 shell Australian assembled very little rust no rego or plates.
All the internals / external bits off the MK3 are in very good order and the MK1 comes with nothing so my question to you all is;
What is needed to convert a MK1 shell to MK3?

Door hinges (will a MK3 door fit a MK1?)
Tail lights
Front Grill

What else??

Any help is appreciated

[Big_Adam]

You want to make a Mk1 into a Mk3?

Ooow, that's going to cause some controversy. Well, having shoved a load of Mk3 bits into a 63 hornet, I can tell you the front loom will fit as well as a later subframe (no idea how you fit a single bolt sub compared to twin bolt).

But doors, you semi-screwed on. Their might be a way to change from mk1 hinges to internal but I think it would involve metal work.

As for the tail lights, Mk1 are desirable as well as the grill. So you might want to try and keep them.

[mike49]

please dont tell me you intend to cut up a solid mk1 shell to make it look mk3...

[Aria Aradhea]

The Mk3 will have a larger door than the Mk1, so unless you're cutting metal away they will not fit. Taillights on the Mk3 will be bigger and square, the Mk1 is oval shaped. The grill on the Mk3 will be different than the Mk1 as well.

to be honest, can you not just swap the mechanics of the Mk3 and keep the classic look of the Mk1? Or is it illegal to do the swap according to New Zealand's law?

[dklawson]

I'm in the camp with Mike49. The Mk1 cars have a unique persona that should be retained when and where possible. Look at what's for sale today... you won't find kits to upgrade your Mk1/2 to Mk3 and later, you'll see retro-kits to make your late model car look like a Mk1.

As stated above, the doors won't fit. Please, please, please, don't cut the Mk1 shell to accept the Mk3 tail-lights. If you must, sell the Mk1 shell to have the money to buy the Mk3 shell you need. But please don't convert the Mk1 to a later style body.

[analogue_radio]

Sell the internal bits from the MK3 & either try and sell the MK3 shell or if it comes to it, and the last resort.. scrap it & use the money to fund the MK1!

[backspace]

Yes I know its wrong and I would be shunned but there is a reason - The registration plates I have are for a MK3 and are on hold till the rebuild is done. I would need MK1 registration plates or convert it to MK3 for the government vehicle inspectors (LTSA in New Zealand) after the rebuild, also all the bumpers, windows, lights, guages etc on the MK3 are in mint condition so to reuse them instead of buying MK1 versions would save me some coin. The MK3 shell would only get me $100 NZD (40 pounds or so) at the scrap yard at the moment, and a "live" registration on a MK1 would set me back $1000 min NZD (400 pound).

All I have for the MK1 is the shell, boot, doors and bonnet, and the MK3 is complete.

To convert (not that I have decided yet....) it cosmetically (not the running gear thats a different kettle of fish)

I will need:
hinges off a MK3
Tail light surround
Grill

anything else?

[Aria Aradhea]

At the moment, I'd say you're looking at a big amount of work to do at the Mk1 (if you decided to convert it).

The back of the car will need cutting and welding to accept the bigger lights from the Mk3.

For the doors, it will not be enough just to fit the hinges from the Mk3 and make it internal-hinges, you will need to either cut the door to fit, or cut the body panel to fit the doors. Then you will need to fill the bolt holes from the external-hinges leftovers. Oh, and the door shape is different as well, so it will have a different A-panels.

As for grille, the Mk1 will have the moustache-type grill so the bonnet will be lipless, while the Mk3 will have the squarer type grille where the upper part attaches to the bonnet lip. You could get away with fitting the Mk3 bonnet directly so you won't need to weld the lip to the bonnet, but the bonnet hinges are in a different place and you need to relocate them or the base of the hinges - which means more welding too.

Bumpers, headlights and gauges should be a straight fit, while windows (especially rear and rear-quarter windows of the Mk1 will be smaller than the Mk3).

I suggest you to first calculate the cost of the cuttings and weldings and also painting the car against the cost of a Mk1 registration. If it is not much cheaper, then why not go for a Mk1 reg?

[dklawson]

It's obviously your car and therefore yours to convert as you see fit. My comments below are not to discourage you but to highlight areas that I know will require attention.

Doors:
It's not just the hinges that are different. The A-panels on the car are different as is the shape of the door opening. Anything is possible with money and time, but to put sliding window doors on a Mk3 car or vise versa is not going to be simple. The door openings will need re-designing, the door step (threshold) will need to be changed, the A-panels will need altering.

I believe the door locks are also different. I don't know what you'd have to do to the Mk1 door opening to mount a Mk3 door lock striker.

Glass:
If the Mk1 body does not have the rear glass and your plan is to fit the Mk3 rear glass to it, you'll have to cut the Mk1 body opening larger to fit the later glass.

Rear Lamps:
You'll need to cut the Mk1 tail lamp bosses off and shape the body openings to duplicate what's on the Mk3.

Grille:
If the Mk1 has a grille why not leave it in place? If you insist on putting the Mk3 grille on the Mk1, I think you'll need to remove the trim from the Mk3 bonnet and spot weld it onto the Mk1 bonnet.

Subframes:
Others will have to chime in with when the front subframe design changed. There are single and 2-bolt versions. The Mk1 will be designed for one using 2-bolts at the bulkhead.

Seat Belts:
If you are expecting to have rear belts with three (3) anchor points, the Mk1 body won't have any provisions for the upper anchors. Many Mk1s didn't have any rear belts at all and no anchor points even for lap belts. If 3-point rear belts will be required for you to pass inspection, some serious modification will be required to the Mk1 body.

Wiring:
The Mk1 wiring harness will not be very suitable for the Mk3 components so you'll need to transplant the wiring from the later car. Along those lines you'll need to move the complete Mk3 windshield wiper system to the Mk1.

Steering:
The Mk1 steering rack isn't thought to be particularly good. You'll want to transfer the Mk3 rack over to the Mk1. When you do so, it will be necessary for you to also move the Mk3 steering arms (that bolt to the hub assembly) to the Mk1 hubs as the arm length/shape are different.

Gearbox:
The Mk3 may (probably) has a rod-change gearbox. The Mk1 will originally have had either the magic wand or remote shift gearbox. The rod change gearbox can be made to fit the tunnel in the floor, but you will need to buy the adapter brackets to fit the rod-change linkage to the floor. If the Mk1 had a magic wand gearbox you will need to cut a hole in the tunnel for the rod change shift lever and you'll need to fabricate a cover plate for the old magic wand opening. You should anticipate that you may need to add additional engine steadies when you move the Mk3 drivetrain to the Mk1.

Gas Tank:
If the Mk1 is from 1964 or earlier, plan on moving your Mk3 gas tank complete with its sending unit to the Mk1 body. Early gas tank sending units are not compatible with the later gauge system.

That's my short list of things that will be affected. I'm sure I've missed some things.

[Mattl]

Rather than spend hours modifying the mk1 shell, your time would be better spent fixing the rot on the mk3 shell....probably more straightforward as well. Either that or hold out for a decent mk3 shell. I wouldnt waste your time modifying the mk1 shell.

[Cooperman]

Rather than spend hours modifying the mk1 shell, your time would be better spent fixing the rot on the mk3 shell....probably more straightforward as well. Either that or hold out for a decent mk3 shell. I wouldnt waste your time modifying the mk1 shell.

The amount of new panel work and welding will make this uneconomic. In reality, you will need two complete new side panels from the 'B'-post backwards, then new A-panels, inners and outers, on both sides. A new inner wing end will also be needed to provide the door-hinge holes. Plus, of course, 2 good doors and their hinges and locks.
As already said, then you'll need a pair of side windows and a rear screen panel as the Mk 1 rear window is noticeable smaller.
I guess you could still use a Mk.1 front subframe, which is a better located frame anyway.
For all that work, one could virtually rebuild an existing Mk.3 shell on a jig with all new panels.

Edited by Cooperman, 14 April 2009 - 01:45 PM.

[jamiewandsmurray]

sorry to revive an old thread, but what did you do in the end? Butcher the rare sought after shell or buy another one?