13 replies to this topic

[liirge]

Hiya,
i was wondering if anyone could help me choose a Cam saft for my Engine Build, which in brief is a Highly tuned 998 (12g295, 120" overbore, Twin Su's, Lightened and Balanced internal, etc etc)
I currently have the SW5-07, however ive heard that if anything this cam saft is going to be rather restrictive on the engine, and a little too tame. So i was wondering what Cam's people would reccomend, ive head good things about the Morpseed Phase 3 and the Kent 286 cam..
Any help Would be Much appreciated
Alastair

[Jordie]

what do you class as most?

What do you want the engine to drive like?

To get "the most" from an engine, you will be fitting a cam that gives the most bhp and torque, along with the best head, best intake and exhaust system etc.

I would look at how you want the engine to drive and study overlap/timing/duration of each camshaft.

Personally on the last engine i did, i went for a PH3 camshaft. It drove nicely for the few miles i drove it before it sold.

[Cooperman]

Is this a track car, a rally car or a road-going car?
For track, a 286 would probably be fine, maybe the 'scatter' variety. However, it will be very 'lumpy' and you'll need a low diff ratio and probably a straight cut close ratio gearbox. Not really any good as a road car. This cam would also be good for a tarmac rally car if geared low enough, but would be a bit 'cammy' for a gravel rally car.
The 276 is a good cam for an overbored 998 and would be reasonably OK for the road.
For a non-competition car then a 266, MG Metro or similar would be best (or the other cam manufacturer's equivalent).
I recently built an overbored 998 to 1061 cc with an original Cooper 'S' cam ( the 510 - a nice cam IMHO), 12G295 head with slightly larger inlets and fully gas-flowed, an original 3-branch Cooper manifold and a single HS4 carb. It gave 68 bhp at 6000 on Pete Baldwin's rollers and is super to drive on the road. It has a 3.1:1 final drive.

[liirge]

Hi there,
Cheers for the reply, i ve asked myself what im after from my Camshaft, and ive decided i want the most power that road drivable mini can have, i dont mind having lumpy Idle and bad performance under 2000/2500Rpm , as long as she can deliver the Strength in the Mid range, and have power at the top to justify the mods made to bulster up the top end rev capability.
The 286 is looking good at the moment, it seems to be at the very edge of Street use, anymore and it becomes more race\rally application.
Ive heard good things about PH3, whats it like compared to the 286?

[mk1leg]

any big cam in a 998 will be different to a 1275-1380................I think the best cam for your engine from experiance would be the old fashioned 649 nothing under 3500 but then it grabs you by the of the neck to 7000..............

[Cooperman]

I've always been a great fan of Kent Cams in general and the 286 in particular. I run a 286 in my 130 cc Cooper 'S' rally car, but even at that capacity it's very lumpy and when hot won't pull strongly below about 2800. I have very low gearing and a close ratio box and without both of those it would be hard to drive in any sort of traffic.
I did build a 998 rally car with a 286 many years ago, but it really needed over 3500 rpm to go at all as it had a light flywheel as well together with a c/r box and a 3.9:1 diff. The cruise performance was slow as it was pulling just over 4000 rpm at 60 mph, so on a motorway journey it's cruising speed was very limited (it didn't do many such journeys as it went by trailer most places).
Personally I wouldn't want a 286 in a road car and would much prefer a 276 or even a 266/MG Metro cam.
With a 286 and standard gearing and final drive (say 3.1:1) the clutch will need changing frequently if the car is driven in traffic much as you'll spend a lot of time slipping it to pull away. This clutch slipping will, in turn, load up the crankshaft thrust bearings more, meaning you'll need to re-build the engine more often The 286 is not really a cam for a road-going Mini and is designed for more serious competition. It will cope as a road cam in a big engine - just - but not a 998 derivative really.

[liirge]

Hmm thats food for thought, more than i can cope with in this Tired state! so i will sleep on this thought. The 286, does sound like it will reliease the most power, however Cooperman seems to have made it sound barely drivable in a Road situation. What about the SW-10? it has slightly less overlap than the 286 and slightly less lift, the duration is lower on the Exhaust aswell.

[valve bounce]

in my mildly tuned 998 (stage 1 kit, lightened fly wheel and pressure plate, 1.5 rockers, single 1.5su, sports coil,electronic ignition) ive got a 948 cam from minisport (think its a factory repo) and it goes really really well, sets off at less than 2000rpm but thers no much mid range 30-40mph in fourth gear takes a while but 3500rpm upwards it really flys all the way up to 8000ish but theres no power over 7250 ish. how managable a cam is depends on how you drive ie if you like reving the nuts off it before changing gear then anything will do .

theres my 2 cents anyhow

[Frog]

Hiya,
i was wondering if anyone could help me choose a Cam saft for my Engine Build, which in brief is a Highly tuned 998 (12g295, 120" overbore, Twin Su's, Lightened and Balanced internal, etc etc)
I currently have the SW5-07, however ive heard that if anything this cam saft is going to be rather restrictive on the engine, and a little too tame. So i was wondering what Cam's people would reccomend, ive head good things about the Morpseed Phase 3 and the Kent 286 cam..
Any help Would be Much appreciated
Alastair

Whilst the sw5 cam isn't one of the biggest it is a very good came producing smooth torque low down & through the rev range. A kent 286 would be very hard to drive in a 998 as it is a lumpy cam in a 1275 as it is. If you want a bit of flexibility then Kent do slightly less racy cams. I have run a couplr of 998 with "old" Special tuning phase angles. I believe that mini spares do repro's of these. I like the 544 myself it is a very good cam. It's all down to peronal preference & driving style. If you are thinking of serious power then look at scatter pattern cams. I used a scatter pattern 649 in a 1293 & it was brilliant.

[T.Harper]

Put it this way...


sell me your SW5!

[Cooperman]

The old 544 is a good cam, but IMHO the newer cam profiles like the Kent and Piper ones are much better than the old BMC ones.
The 286 is fine, if lumpy, in a 1275 or larger, but in a 998 it is even more 'cammy' and if fitted to a 998 the final drive ratio will have to be lowered which will reduce the cruising speed on a main road/motorway. One doesn't fit a really 'hot' cam for road cruising, they are for competition where acceleration is the main objective. For example, my historic rally Cooper 'S' has a 286 in a 1310 cc block with all the right bits. It gives 117 bhp at 6300 rpm but I can't really cruise it at over about 65 mph, that's 4400 rpm, as it's so low geared and noisy with its SC CR gearbox. However, it does give a genuine 0-60 in 7.4 seconds, which is what it's for and on a stage will pull up to 7200 rpm. Even with a 1310 cc lump I would go no higher than a 266 or MG Metro cam for road cruising.
The only things maximum power are good for are racing/rallying and bragging about in the pub!! With too hot a cam it becomes a real chore to drive on the road. I take mine to and from events by trailer. Also, the hotter the engine, the more often it will need a strip and rebuild. i completely strip mine after every 6 rallies, unless it breaks its transmission in the meantime - not an uncommon occurrance!

Edited by Cooperman, 13 May 2009 - 10:43 PM.

[liirge]

Put it this way...


sell me your SW5!

Thankyou guys for all this help!

Well are you interested mate? because i think the SW5 is going! To be replaced with im not sure on yet.

Things ive gathered about the 286:

Problems
Very Lumpy idle, Burnt out Clutches, Constant rebuilds.
Too make it work i'll need a close ratio box, and a lower final Drive..will 3.7 do it? or a 3.9 job?

Advantages
Its got alot of power to give, and prefect if i fancy rallying one weekend!

One point to add to this, after i have built this engine the VERY NEXT mod is a Mega jolt, would that be able to correct the problems of the Lumpyness and traffic issues of the 286?

How much tamer is the 276?

[liirge]

Anyone got any experience with the Morspeed PH3?

[Shifty]

I spoke to Morspeed about the ph3 in a smallbore during my engine build, Simon advised that it could be used but would be very cammy which a lot of people(including him) liked.

My sw5 in my 1015 is very tame, If I were to ever pull the engine then a 276 would be going straight in!!!

Don't get me wrong its a good strong engine and was exactly what I was after, however after building it what I wanted has changed!!

Theres no kick in the back or discernable "umph" it just provides good stong power, mine made 50bhp and 68 at the fly so its obviously doing something!!

A lot of people who I've spoken to afterwards have recommended the 276 as good cam for the smallbore.

(As i'm writing this I'm getting more and more tempted to pull the engine and stick a 276 in!!)