7 replies to this topic

[MiniMonty]

I've done a few things recently like drive shaft oil seals and steering gaiters and I lost the tracking.

So I read up a bit on this thread and a couple of others then went to Kwik Fit today and had a jovial but "lively" conversation with the bloke doing the tracking
who first couldn't get the equipment settled on the front wheels, who then wouldn't believe that 1.6mm was the right setting
until I found it printed on Kwik Fits' own wall chart and who then tried for a long time to convince me that it was "right" to have one front
wheel toe in (off side) and the other toe out (near side). Which to my mind means the car is constantly trying to gently turn left
(which is exactly how it feels even after having the tracking supposedly sorted).

The bloke doing the work is a well seasoned old krone who seemed to know his stuff - we had a long old chat about
how to stop the oil leak from the gearbox with two reverse seals and what have you - he's sixty if he's a day and was full of stories
about Minis 'back in the day' and he was absolutely convinced of the "one toe in one toe out" idea but it seems odd (and totally wrong) to me.
So is he barmy or am I confused ?

It came to a close at 6:45 because we all wanted to go home but it didn't look right to me in any way.

Could do with a definitive technical answer because I'm going back there tomorrow to have it "finished".

Best wishes
Monty

[lrostoke]

I was trying to get my head around tracking the other day, I can't actually see how you can have different amount of track on the front wheels.

The adjustment is made via the track rod ends on the end of the steering rack. This is basically connecting both wheels together, so if you adjust one side it will affect the other.

Say for example you wind one track rod in so giving you toe out, then it will pull the other wheel in as well., what that will do though is put your steering wheel facing away from true, and will give you less lock on one side.

What you should actually do is count the exposed threads on each track rod end, make sure you have the same amount show both sides, and then alter each track rod end by the same amount until you get the correct tracking reading...yes it is tow out at the front.

Edited by lrostoke, 14 July 2009 - 08:06 AM.

[icklemini]

to convince me that it was "right" to have one front
wheel toe in (off side) and the other toe out (near side).

Across the front: its the total amount of toe thats important.
Depending on the gauges in use: this may show up as one side 'toe in' the other 'toe-out' as it will (if being aligned properly ), be being adjusted with the rear thrust line of the car being factored in (did he have rear 'flags on the wheels??')

I can't actually see how you can have different amount of track on the front wheels.

You can relative to the centreline. though at the front its the total toe that needs measureing not individual toe...

The adjustment is made via the track rod ends on the end of the steering rack. This is basically connecting both wheels together, so if you adjust one side it will affect the other.

Adjusting one track rod end does not effect / adjust the other side....

Say for example you wind one track rod in so giving you toe out, then it will pull the other wheel in as well., what that will do though is put your steering wheel facing away from true, and will give you less lock on one side

It wont pull the other wheel in directly.
the steering wheel will be off centre due to the fact the tracking isnt being adjusted with reference to the rear thrust line of the car...Just adjusting one track rod can lead to all sorts of weirdness... like having less lock on one side... car drifting.. having to 'hold' the wheel straight.. Yet the front tracking can be 'right' just not done correctly...

What you should actually do is count the exposed threads on each track rod end, make sure you have the same amount show both sides, and then alter each track rod end by the same amount until you get the correct tracking reading...

In the ideal world if the car was 100% straight as an arrow that would work fine... and is a good starting point, but again this makes no reference to the rear and you can end up with...car drifting.. having to 'hold' the wheel straight.. etc..

TTFN,
dave

[lrostoke]

Assuming the car is straight, and rear wheels aligned correct

I still don't get how adjusting one side doesn't affect the other.

The steering rack is basically joining each wheel. by adjusting the track rod ends you are either shortening or lengthing the distance between the wheels.

 steering.JPG   5.17K   19 downloads

The wheels pivot at the balljoints, so adjusting the length of the steering rack must move both wheels. ???

Unless I'm missing something If you held the steering wheel rigid in a fixed position then I can see how the wheels could be facing different. but if the car finds its own center line the wheels should tow in or out the same, and the steering wheel will have moved !! ??

Edited by lrostoke, 14 July 2009 - 11:06 AM.

[icklemini]

I know what you are saying: we're saying similar things and describing them differently:

The wheels pivot at the balljoints, so adjusting the length of the steering rack must move both wheels. ???

No it will move one wheel... but the affect will be that toe is altered across the pair of wheels.
The track rods coming out the rack rotate in their own ball and socket, thus if you adjust one, you ony alter one wheel directly... but the affect is that the toe changes between the pair.

Unless I'm missing something If you held the steering wheel rigid in a fixed position then I can see how the wheels could be facing different. but if the car finds its own center line the wheels should tow in or out the same, and the steering wheel will have moved !! ??

exactly: the *affect* is that the toe changes between the pair of wheels... but adjusting one trackrod end does not physically move anything else other that that particular side you are working on....

EG:
you can quite easily get the toe right just by moving one track rod end... although the toe is right, the steering wheel will be out, the car may well wander, more turns one way than the other.etc.
this is similar to setting the rack central, equalising the threads coming out of each track rod, then adjusting each one to get the toe right... this scenario the wheel may well be 'straight', the car could still wander, number of turns though should be the same.

[lrostoke]

Think we are sort of saying same thing

[icklemini]

Think we are sort of saying same thing

aye

[CraigyBoy]

I just use the same method as we use when racing with Porsche, just use strings. Two poles connected with elastic evenly spaced at each end so that they can clear the width of the vehicle. Place on axle stands parallel and square around the vehicle, then get the vehicle centre in the "square" and then measure tracking in mm with a engineer's ruler from a fixed datum.

When you know what your after, a good start is straight front and back, if you've got adjustable tracking brackets on your mini?

Hope that helps.



Craig