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Fitted new HT leads and plugs


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#1 johnnysti

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 05:52 PM

I fitted my new magnecor ht leads and NGK irridium plugs to the mini today and all doesnt seem well.
After fitting them to the car (with the standard ignition coil) http://img.photobuck...st1/Picture.jpg i drove it and it didnt feel as lively as usual and had flat spots all over the place especially at high rpm (50mph onwards).
Ive fitted the leads as per the firing order in the haynes manual to the engine block and when i tried to move them around on the dizzy cap all it did was a massive back fire!!
This is the dizzy ive got with the standard leads attached
http://img.photobuck...nyst1/dizzy.jpg
http://img.photobuck.../Picture011.jpg

So on the way back from work today (a distance of 35 miles) i changed things to see what the cause may have been. Firstly i changed the lead from the dizzy to the ignition coil back to the magnecor one after fitting the standard one at work before leaving with no noticable change (and also lost the standard lead in the process!!)
Then a little later on i changed all the HT leads to the standard ones (excluding the dizzy-coil lead as its now lost) and it felt much closer to normal but still note quite there.
So now im left scratching my head. Is it all to much for the standard coil?? Does anyone knoe the correct order for the leads to fit into my dizzy as pictured above?
If you stand at the grill of the car looking at the dizzy the current order (left to right top two left to right bottom two) its lead 4-1-2-3 but in the haynes manual it says 4-3-2-1 as pictured in a diagram of the ignition system circuitry. (Mini 1969-82 workshop manual page 21)
Please help as i only want the best for the car.

Note that the plugs havent been changed as yet in the elimination process and are still the irridium ones and that its a metro block so im told if that matters?

Johnny

#2 Bluemini

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 05:58 PM

Firing order is 1 - 3 - 4 - 2. 1 being at the top right corner of the dizzy going in an anti-clockwise direction.

Unless you have put the leads on in the wrong order, and it was running fine before you changed them then it points towards faulty or wrong leads, or that maybe you have disturbed one of the other wires to the coil or dizzy.

#3 Jammy

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 06:34 PM

Did you set the gaps on the spark plugs before you put them in?

#4 johnnysti

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 07:16 PM

Oh.
So if i move the leads to how you suggest and turn the car over and they are still on wrong can this do any dammage to the engine?
Ive attached a pic of the diagram in the manual to show what i tried to follow which made it do the massive back fire and a pic of the order i have it at the mo.

Diagram suggestion
http://img.photobuck...Dizzydigram.jpg

My drawing of the current lead setup on the dizzy at the mo
http://img.photobuck...tdizzysetup.jpg

Blue mini, the firing order you have said is the same as the haynes diagram just not with one in the top right corner. ie 3(top right) 4-2-1 going anti clockwise.

Is it poss to put the cap on at a wrong point/angle?? Or am i being a retard :w00t:

Johnny

#5 johnnysti

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 07:36 PM

Did you set the gaps on the spark plugs before you put them in?

No i didnt set the gap. I was told they come pre-set to the specific engine. What should the gap be?

Johnny

#6 Jammy

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 07:42 PM

The last spark plugs I had were set at the correct gap, but I always check just in case. Haynes states a gap of 0.8mm.

#7 johnnysti

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 08:08 PM

Can you get the gap checker thing from halfords?

#8 Jammy

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 08:37 PM

They should do feeler guages.

#9 johnnysti

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 09:11 PM

So if i was to put the ht leads in the wrong ports on the dizzy will it cause any dammage to the engine when i try to start it up?? Thats my biggest fear!!

Johnny

#10 dklawson

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Posted 10 October 2005 - 02:12 AM

Well, you probably haven't done any permanent damage... yet.

On A-series engines with distributors, the firing order and positions are as Bluemini said, 1-3-4-2 starting with #1 wire near the 2-o'clock position when you look at the dizzy cap.

Let's back up a step though, pull the plugs back out. Put the car in neutral with the parking brake on. Pull the fan belt to rotate the engine in the normal direction of rotation. Watch for the timing marks (presumably your Mini is late enough that they are on the crank pulley). When the zero degree mark is coming up on the pulley and near the pointer on the timing cover, shine a flashlight in the #1 spark plug hole (nearest the water pump). You should see the top of the piston coming up. Now take the dizzy cap off. Compare the rotor position to the wires on the dizzy cap. The rotor will be pointing at the lug where the #1 cylinder wire goes. Now that you know where #1 is... put the other wires on 1-3-4-2 going counterclockwise from #1.

EDIT: NEVER assume that a new sparkplug is gapped correctly for your engine. Sparkplugs are commercial items used in MANY engines and they can't all require the same specifications. The gap may be correct by coincidence but don't count on it happening.

Edited by dklawson, 10 October 2005 - 02:13 AM.


#11 johnnysti

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Posted 10 October 2005 - 05:55 AM

If the rotor arm isnt pointing where it should be can it be moved to set it all up or is where ever it will be when the no.1 cylinder is showing is where the no.1 lead will go??

Also is it possible to put the leads into the dizzy slightly different than the proper order they are meant to go in and the car to still run normally as my leads at the mo are on different to the order that blue mini was telling me??

Johnny

#12 dklawson

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Posted 10 October 2005 - 12:24 PM

You CANNOT change the order of the plug wires. They must always be 1-3-4-2. What you CAN change is which position is #1.

You implied that the rotor is pointing to some position other than the 2-o'clock position on the dizzy cap. That's OK. Wherever the rotor is pointing when #1 cylinder is near TDC with the timing marks lined up can be your #1 position on the dizzy cap.

On the original A-series you could MAYBE stuff the dizzy in 180 degrees out of phase, but even that would be difficult. Other positions were only possible if you removed the dizzy drive gear from the block and repositioned it before installing the dizzy. I don't know what's possible with A+ engines.

#13 johnnysti

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 10:11 PM

The last spark plugs I had were set at the correct gap, but I always check just in case. Haynes states a gap of 0.8mm.

Just looked on the site i got my plugs from and they are 0.9mm gaps. Is that close enough? Im also fitting the lucas sports coil tomorrow which ive been told you can increase the gap, not that im going to do that as i aint got a clue what im doing!!!! But if that is true that extra 0.1mm shouldnt make a difference then should it??



Johnny

#14 johnnysti

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 10:15 PM

Also is my current coil missing a wire on the connector thing??

http://img.photobuck...st1/Picture.jpg

I did find a wire hanging round loose and put it on the the oil switch (gussing thats what it is on the front of the engine behind the coil!!!) thinking thats where it came from!!! Any ideas?? You can make it out on the picture, its the blue wire at the bottom of the pic.

Johnny

#15 dklawson

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Posted 12 October 2005 - 01:54 AM

I don't know the wiring on later cars and from what I can see of that blue wire, it appears to have an aftermarket crimp terminal on it. It may not be "stock" or it may be a repair.

Whether or not you have any missing wires... I don't know. There are too many possible combinations and "what ifs". The most basic connections are a white wire to the coil (+) terminal and the black/white wire on coil (-) going to the distributor. There may be other white wire connections for accessories or an electric fuel pump. There may be other coil (-) connections for tachometers and/or kill switches.

The increase in the gap is .1mm or 0.004" Your car probably won't feel this difference without some major retuning. The idea is that you run a high-power coil and open the gap up to generate a hotter spark... presumably to ignite the fuel better.

There is a general rule in cooking that the first time you use a recipe, you follow it to the letter. Once you've made the dish the first time and know what it's supposed to taste like you can begin to improvise and make it your own. The same applies here. Go through your ignition system as described in the manuals. Set the point gap, set the static timing, set the plug gap to specs. Make sure the dizzy cap and rotor are in good order and that the plug wires are on correctly. In the future, make one change at a time and judge the results before moving on.




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