20 replies to this topic

[Calman]

Right as i said in the title its a new question as far as i know.

Im stuck in mind between a lap belt or 3 point harness for my front seats.

For the lap belt i was planning a hole cut in the wing of the chair and tided up after(These seats probably) That was big enough for the lap belt buckle to go through so that i can still flip the seats foward.

Ad asfor the harness, if i were to reinforce the plate underneath the rear seats and mount the back to there, would it be legal to use one of those clips like this that joins the end of the harness to an eye on the body? Obviously i would need on that has a high bending/breaking strength.

But thi way to let people n the back, i just unclip the back harness strap so that it allows the seat to tilt further foward and it gets it out of the way so people dont trip on it.

Any ideas?

Thanks

Edited by Calman, 09 November 2009 - 05:29 PM.

[Dan]

Why are you in two minds? Lap belts are lethal, don't fit any. In cars of a certain age the law requires three point seatbelts anyway. No it is not legal to have removable seatbelts. You shouldn't use a carabiner anyway (need one with a high breaking strength? Real screwgate carabiners are far stronger than seatbelts, they are designed to arrest falls after all). There are clip in harnesses with proper removable clips that fit to eye bolts, to make them road legal the clips must be wired shut so that you can't simply release them. Simply put if you have harnesses fixed to the back seats, you don't have back seats. It would be lnsanity to think that any passenger would be safe in the back with the front seat harness straps wrapped around them or with two sets of seatbelts scured to the same points. Harnesses or a four seat car, either or but not both.

[Calman]

Cheers for clearing that up dan

I can understand why a lap belt would be dangerous (asuuming because theres nothing to stop the top half of your body?) But would it be legal?

Thanks

[Calman]

[Dan]

Depends on the age of the car, as I said above.

[Calman]

Its for a 69. Sept aswell is that changes anything?

Thanks

[Dan]

In 1965 a law was passed in Europe that required all cars to have front seat lap belts. The UK was not part of Europe at that time I believe. In 1967 the UK passed a law requiring all new cars to have 3 point seatbelts fitted. In 1968 the UK passed a law requiring all cars built back as far as 1965 to have a belt restraining the upper body retro fitted. This was a very unusual law requiring a retrospective upgrade to cars that people already owned, they never do this. I think this was the only time it was done.


Effectively, all cars built since 1965 need to have a belt to restrain the upper body but not necessarily a lap belt along with it (stupid technicality and a byproduct of the way the law was drafted I believe) and all cars built since 1967 require a proper 3 point seat belt.

[Dan6061]

Every harness I've seen has a clip to mount to the loop anyway. Whenever I need to take my seat out, I can simply unclip the harness!

[Dan]

As I said above, clip in harnesses are only road legal if the clips are wired shut.

[Calman]

Thanks for the legals Dan

Could some one possibly link me to one of the mechanisims that make it detachable and one of these clamping wires?

Dan6061 : Dont suppose you could get a pic of yours could you?

The ones we always used to use at racing (fair few years ago) were bolted directly to the car so i'm a bit in the dark about how they're made now.

Thanks

Edit:Stupid iPod correcting words and making up new ones

Edited by Calman, 11 November 2009 - 10:54 PM.

[Calman]

Bump

[GraemeC]

Not sure how the Securon 700 falls into this as it is 'semi' removable (at least the rear strap can be disconnected easily from it's fixing).

However, before you get any ideas, it isn't suitable for a Mini as it would require the rear mounting to be on the parcel shelf which isn't considered a suitably strong mounting point.

[Calman]

Hi, i know the optiman angle would place it on the parcel shelf, but i've seen countless amounts of people who have them on the upright bit under the rear seat. (And reinforce them aswell)

That way if there is people in the back it wont be in the way as it would go between their knees effectivly.

Just the back would need to be 'detachable' to make it tilt and slide enough for rear acesses.

Thanks

[Dan]

but i've seen countless amounts of people who have them on the upright bit under the rear seat.

Those countless people are all in a lot of trouble if they crash badly. The closest to the front seats that you can have the rear straps is the base of the rear bulkhead, where the reat seatbelts fit to anyway. Any closer isn't just less than optimal, it's lethal. If the belt is steeper than 45 degrees it doesn't prevent you moving forward. You will accelerate forward with the belt simply pivoting around its mounting and when you develop more energy than the seat has strength, it will collapse and you will be crushed. If you haven't hit the steering wheel or broken your back first. Please believe me, you cannot have harnesses and rear seats in a Mini. If you want to use your rear seats, keep regular seatbelts. They are a lot more convenient anyway. The parcel shelf is also out of the question as a mounting point, it's not strong enough. I've seen Minis with the whole back end pulled inside out after a crash because the seatbelt was mounted there.

[Calman]

Your words are starting to sink in with regards to a crash.

If i were to use the seats in the first post, how would i go about modding them to suit a 3 point belt?

I was thinking maybe a piece cut out at the bottom of each wing so that the lap belt bit sits against me as oppose to sitting on the wings.

Can do a paint shop edit if need be.

Thanks