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Electrical Problems - Sparks In The Car..!


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#1 Mart

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 06:28 PM

Model: Mini Sprite
Year: 1993
Description of problem :

Believe it or not, I have sparks! coming from the left hand bolt of the drivers seat.. Sparking has also jumped from drivers seat to the door speaker when the door was open.
Both occured with engine running

Ok, a bit of background.

Friday Night the Fan Belt gave way and snapped on the way home, 7 miles to go, I managed with frequent stops to allow cooling to get home, yes it took a while.
I changed the fan belt successully, it's the required tightness just slight movement / twist. However I stupidly didn't take the car out for a drive immediately and upon coming to it the next morning the battery was flat as a pancake. No ignition light or turnover.
So, batter on Fast Charge for 1.5 hours, back in ther car, starts first time, excellent. Went for a drive, around 20 miles or so, everything seemed to be ok.
Next Morning (Monday) Flat as a pancake..
Put the battery on charge from 8am until 7pm, dropped it in the car, starts first time, drove to Halfords, got them to battery test it.

Battery is a 62AH 540A battery (big beasty apparently). 79% Efficiency the lad says, should be fine, check your alternator.
Ok, so onto this morning.

Car starts first time, drove to work, around 5 miles, no problems, thought, as I have a my mulitimeter at hand and I'm early to work, I'll test the alternator.

Car Off, 12.35Volts across the Battery Terminal's
Car On Idle (warmed up) 14.45Volts across the Terminal's
Alternator = Fine? I think so from what I have read on this forum and elsewhere.

But as I work back round the front I see this spark jump from the seat to the speaker! OMG!
Sweep the seat forward, the inside bolt to the seat that goes through the floor is sparking, alot!
Turn ignition off

Had a look under the car, I can see the underseal expanded and "burn't" around where that bolt goes through to the nut.
Gave it a knock with my spanner, lots of sparking and a bit of smoke through the floor of the car. Ok I am kind of ****ing myself now.
Ran round the back and pulled the +ve terminal off the battery.

I left the car at work, any ideas?

I can't see anyting obviously loose, I have pulled the carpet up around the seat post there don't seem to be any cables insdide the car in that area, although that has been there for some time and not moved to my knowledge as I don't think I have "caught a wire" or anything.

Help please :)

#2 wassupcrew

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 06:40 PM

sounds like the bolt has gone through the battery posotive cable that runs along the unerside of the floorpan

#3 Mart

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 06:45 PM

sounds like the bolt has gone through the battery posotive cable that runs along the unerside of the floorpan


Thanks for the quick responce.

Is it that close to the seat bolts? It didn't really twig in my mind as being something like that as nothing has moved to my knowledge since we got the car 16months ago.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all, I appreciate the pointer, I'll have a look in the morning after I've walked to work :)

Anything else I can check?

#4 lrostoke

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 06:47 PM

I'll 2nd that, definitly sounds like theres a break in the main battery cable insulation causing it to short in that area.

Edited by lrostoke, 08 December 2009 - 06:48 PM.


#5 Mart

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 06:50 PM

Is there a "quick" short term resolution to enable me to have the courage to drive it lol

Presumably I need a new main cable asap, but can it be wrapped, sprayed something'ed?

#6 danrock101

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 06:53 PM

Is there a "quick" short term resolution to enable me to have the courage to drive it lol

Presumably I need a new main cable asap, but can it be wrapped, sprayed something'ed?

plenty of electric tape for a short term fix, mines got electric tape on now because im too tight to buy a new cable

#7 bluethunder

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 06:54 PM

Sounds like your live wire from the battery is definatly damaged and shorting on the bolt. Easy way to check this with the ignition and everything off check the continuity between your live and negative terminals on your battery. If you are showing a complete circuit then it is either shorting somewhere or something is turned on. And seeing as every thing should be turned off you have a short.

<<< DO NOT PUT A CONTINUITY TESTER ACROSS THE TERMINALS OF YOUR BATTERY. Doing so won't tell you anything useful and could be very dangerous. You need to test the wiring, not the power supply>>>

Then get under the car an pull the main live cable away from the clips under the car so it's hanging there. Check for damage? If you can't see any then try your continuity test again. Hopefully this will eliminate a short circuit on the live feed from the battery?

#8 Mart

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 07:04 PM

thanks very much all, I'll check this all out tomorrow and report back with findings

Appreciated :)

#9 adam_93rio

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 07:12 PM

i was just replying on here but my laptop cut off, (wierd on full battery with charger in)

yeh, basically it sounds like what everybody had managed to beat me to saying
ill say anyway
your live cable that runs down the car must have a cut in the insulation which is shorting on the body work

a good way to test is if your multimeter has a diode/relay test with a beep
stick it on across the body work and the live terminal and it should be a straight short

however if this test comes back with negative results, give everything another check

but simply wrapping the gash in plenty of insulation tape would be fine for a temorary fix

hope this helped even though its a bit late now

#10 2lrminivan

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 07:13 PM

take the battery terminals of NOW before it catches fire

#11 Mart

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 07:34 PM

take the battery terminals of NOW before it catches fire


No worries on that front, that was the first thing I did, the live terminal is off and tucked well away :)

Thanks also Adam, I have a diode setting on my multimeter so I will give that a go also

First step tomorrow will be to get under and have a good look at the battery feed.

Out of interest does anyone happen to have a picture of the underside showing where that lead is, there is ALOT of thick underseal under there so a "goto" point would give me a head start

thanks

#12 minidaves

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 07:50 PM

a temp battory cable fix is some 10mm fuel pipe and leccy tape

#13 adam_93rio

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 07:54 PM

if you look at your front subframe on the drivers side towards the back you will see the cable there, shouldnt be too hard to trace it back from there, it just runs straight back from there

ill find a picture that someone posted up to help me with my exhaust. you can see it on there

just noticed on the picture its a re-routed one, so might not be of much help and could be a bit confusing, sorry for the red herring if you read it

Edited by adam_93rio, 08 December 2009 - 07:57 PM.


#14 wassupcrew

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Posted 09 December 2009 - 06:35 PM

once the cable comes away from the front subframe and on th the fllor pan, therew is an extra piece of metal that folds over the cable all the way down the floor which protects the cable from scraping on the floor. you will have to bend this flap back to access the cable

#15 Mart

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 07:23 PM

I just wanted to thank you all for you advice and assistance, it turns out once I got it jacked up, it was indeed the main battery feed.

Contrary to my own belief, as I stated we have had the Mini around 16 months and it came with the bucket seats already fitted and therefore "nothing has moved" it turns out that bolt that was sparking, was straight through the battery lead!

Upon removal and clean up of the under seal we discovered all bar 4 or 5 threads of cabling where complete severed / melted.

New cable fitted today, actually thicker and more heavy duty then the original, and all is well :)

Thanks again everyone for your help.

p.s. Yes I do feel like an extremely lucky person for it being like that for so long!

I don't know whether fitting a new fan belt would cause something like that or whether it's pure coincidence, certainly the new one means the alternator is no where near as far along on the adjustment than with the old belt?

Heh ho it's fixed now :o




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