17 replies to this topic

[carboy001]

Hello, basically I want to change from a verto clutch to a pre-verto clutch. Ive read guessworks guide on changing over which is a great starter to get your head around it but technically isnt finished I think as he made the guide before he converted over, so if anyone could advise on anything Ive missed that would be great .

Bits to acquire;
-Pre-engaged starter (hopefully picking one up next weekend)
-Clutch Package: MED Clutch will go stage one if funds don't allow.
-Clutch Slave Cylinder: Genuine Clutch Slave Cylinder.
-Long Clutch Arm: Anyone got one to give me
-Locking Ring: £1.32 from Moss Europe; No. 47
-Release Bearing: £6.95 from Moss Europe; No. 4
-Pre-Verto Plunger: Minispares Plunger
-Spring Plate(Slave Cylinder End): From Moss Europe; No. 64
-Spring Plate(Lever End): £3.19 from Moss Europe; No. 60
-Clutch Arm Return Spring: £2.96 from Moss Europe; No. 63
-S/S Braided Hose to Slave Cylinder: £16.30 from Moss Europe; No. 9

Right from what ive read thats what I need and obviously ive upgraded on the clutch assembly itself, can anyone confirm that please? Also it anyone has any advise or tips as regards to the conversion that would be ace. I know theres also some wiring that will be required but since Im starting from scratch anyway I'll deal with that problem later down the line.

Thanks for reading.

Chris.

[Dan]

Don't use a second hand clutch arm that someone gives you, they are a wearing part. The locking ring was deleted some time many decades ago, you don't need it. That and the cylinder end spring tag are NLA, you can order them from Moss if you like but you'll be waiting a long time! You've missed the return stop bolt and lock nut for under the arm. A flywheel will help! The flywheel bolt is different too. Are you sure you want a pre-engaged starter?

[carboy001]

Don't use a second hand clutch arm that someone gives you, they are a wearing part. The locking ring was deleted some time many decades ago, you don't need it. That and the cylinder end spring tag are NLA, you can order them from Moss if you like but you'll be waiting a long time! You've missed the return stop bolt and lock nut for under the arm. A flywheel will help! The flywheel bolt is different too. Are you sure you want a pre-engaged starter?

Thanks for the reply Dan.

Good point on the clutch arm, didnt know that, will get a new one then, won't brake the bank. I was cross referencing between guessworks information and moss-europe's diagrams so thought the spring tag and locking ring were required, why are they now obsolete, surely the process is the process? The stop bolt and lock were described as the same for both verto and pre-verto going off moss-europes diagrams which did confuse me, so are they different, I thought they would have been?

The flywheel is included in the MED clutch package, didnt forget about it

Flywheel bolt, im guessing that would be the centre bolt then?

Starters is where I was struggling with guessworks guide, I dont get it, the way it was described I thought it was required in order to do the conversion or are there two different ways in doing this? Could really do with the starters being described in simpletons terms please

[Ethel]

You can use either starter with either clutch as long as you have the matching starter ring gear on the flywheel. Only the pre verto has a return stop but the verto uses the same bolt hole for the slave cylinder mounting bracket. Being a tight fisted Yorkshireman I'd use a freebie clutch arm, easy enough to replace on the car

[Guess-Works.com]

The starter is dependant upon the ring gear not the clutch or flywheel, if you're getting a new one, get one with a pre-engaged ring gear and use a pre-engaged starter they are much better than an inertia starter.

[gav]

An article i wrote for the minispares website some time ago:

Verto > Pre verto

PARTS IN BRACKETS INDICATE ALTERNATIVES


GHF323 SHAKEPROOF WASHER 3/8” UNF 6

GFK5240 BOLT REMOTE HOUSING SHORT 1” UNC 2

88G508 FLYWHEEL KEYWAY – PRE VERTO (EN24T) 1

2A3658 CLUTCH FLYWHEEL STRAP 6

CLZ628 CLUTCH ARM PIN – BOTTOM 1

CLZ518 CLEVIS PIN FOR CLUTCH ARM AT THE TOP 1

22A747 FLYWHEEL BOLT PRE VERTO 1

2A3657 CLUTCH BOLT LONG COVER TO PRESSURE 3

2A3659 CLUTCH FLYWHEEL STRAP BOLT SHORT 3

22A1155 FLYWHEEL BOLT LOCKTAB PRE VERTO 1

22A180MS CLUTCH PLUNGER PRE VERTO 1

1G5999 CLUTCH RETURN SPRING ON SLAVE CYLINDER 1

2A3600 ANCHOR TAB FOR SLAVE CYLINDER 1

2A3601 CLUTCH RETURN SPRING ANCHOR ON CLUTCH ARM 1

GRB201 CLUTCH RELEASE THRUST BEARING PRE VERTO 1
(GRB201EVO) CLUTCH RELEASE THRUST BEARING HEAVY DUTY PRE VERTO 1

22A2204MS CLUTCH LEVER ARM LONG PRE VERTO HEAVY DUTY WIDTH 1
(22A2204) CLUTCH LEVER ARM LONG PRE VERTO LATEST ORIGINAL DESIGN 1
(C-22A2204) CLUTCH LEVER ARM LONG PRE VERTO COMPETITION 1

GSY110MS CLUTCH SLAVE CYLINDER EARLY NON GENUINE 1
(GSY110) CLUTCH SLAVE CYLINDER EARLY GENUINE 1

22A598 PRESSURE PLATE DIAPHRAGM CLUTCH TYPE PRE VERTO 1
(C-AHT230) PRESSURE PLATE LIGHTENED EN8 FOR COMPETITION PRE VERTO 1

C-AHT596 CLUTCH PLATE AP RACING ROAD/RALLY PLATE 180MM 1

C-AEG481 CLUTCH DIAPHRAGM ORANGE 1
(C-AEG482) CLUTCH DIAPHRAGM GREY COMPETITION TYPE 1
(C-AEG483) CLUTCH DIAPHRAGM DOUBLE GREY RACE, FOR SINTERED PLATES 1

C-AJJ4025COMP CLUTCH HOSE BRAIDED ONE PIECE, MASTER TO SLAVE 1

C-AEG620 FLYWHEEL ULTRALIGHT FOR PRE ENGAGED STARTER IF FITTED 1
(C-AEG621) FLYWHEEL ULTRALIGHT STEEL 3.8KG FOR INERTIA STARTER 1
(C-AEG420) FLYWHEEL STEEL FOR PRE ENGAGED STARTER 1
(C-AEG421) FLYWHEEL STEEL ROAD/RALLY FOR INERTIA STARTER 1

Edited by gav, 14 December 2009 - 10:55 AM.

[gav]

Ah 2A3600 anchor tab is available again now

[IainR]

I am missing something here?

What is the advantage of converting to the older style clutch, can someone enlighten me please?

Edited by IainR, 14 December 2009 - 12:19 PM.

[Guess-Works.com]

A Verto is a road clutch, not many alternatives in regards plate composite nor spring strength...

A diaphragm clutch has a much wider choice of setups and the flywheel also be lightened considerably more than the verto arrangement

[carboy001]

You can use either starter with either clutch as long as you have the matching starter ring gear on the flywheel. Only the pre verto has a return stop but the verto uses the same bolt hole for the slave cylinder mounting bracket. Being a tight fisted Yorkshireman I'd use a freebie clutch arm, easy enough to replace on the car

Right im guessing then it has something to do with the teeth on the gear then being matched up, that would make sense. Thanks for the reply Ethel.

The starter is dependant upon the ring gear not the clutch or flywheel, if you're getting a new one, get one with a pre-engaged ring gear and use a pre-engaged starter they are much better than an inertia starter.

Hi Guessworks,

Am I right in thinking then the pre-engaged ring gear is included in this package then, as going back to the moss diagram it seems to be within diaphragm and the pressure plate, am I right? Its the ring gear that is confusing me now.

An article i wrote for the minispares website some time ago:

Verto > Pre verto

PARTS IN BRACKETS INDICATE ALTERNATIVES

Cheers for that gav, very helpful.

Think im getting there now, just a little bit more help with the above please.

[Guess-Works.com]

Yes the ring gear is part of the flywheel ( the toothed bit round the outside )

I suspect when you order, you will be asked, pre-engaged or inertia...

[liirge]

The starter is dependant upon the ring gear not the clutch or flywheel, if you're getting a new one, get one with a pre-engaged ring gear and use a pre-engaged starter they are much better than an inertia starter.

Hey,
Why are the pre-engaged starters better? iv'e always wondered

[gav]

Thanks, someone appreciates it lol, if you buy a flywheel it will come with a ringear so yes it does come in that kit.

[carboy001]

Understand the ring gear now, thanks.

Hey,
Why are the pre-engaged starters better? iv'e always wondered

Yeh im still wondering this myself to be honest.


Think im there with it now though. But im still confused why you dont need the locking ring and just one of the spring anchors, where does the other end of the spring go?

Chris.

[carboy001]

Bump