8 replies to this topic

[trafficface09]

I am starting this topic in order to get some answers about fitting 10s 12s 13s 14s. i may stress that there has been topics on fitting 10 inch alloy wheels but i have never found information on 13s and the little known 14s. I kust wanted to bring alll the advice together on one topic.

10s

12s: as far as i am aware there is no work necessary for fitting 12s, please do correct me if i am wrong.

13s

14s unknown process

you may be thinking all i have done is link the FAQs topics but this is not the full story.

can sombody define:

why rear arches are tubed?

are 10 wellers with 1"spacers the only alloys that will fit over 8.4 disks without further modification the the caliper?

what is a rear beam and how can that help towards fitting 14s?

13" how much must be cut of the front arch?

banded steals what are they? and are they legal?

whats the widest wheel you could fit on a mini? ( i found 14 x 9)

explain tyre profile, legalitys of tred and how much must be covered by an arch?

Now i know thats a lot of questions with a lot of answers, but if they help somebody who finds this topic then its worth it. i want anyone who knows the corect answer to one or more of thease questions to answer them one at a time. so they are clearly defined.

eternally greatfull, good luck!
if any other questions need to be addressed please ad them.

[CobraV8]

Some answers:

1. Rear Arch Tubbing - this is the cutting of the metal that hangs down outside the normal shape of the inner arch to partially cover the standard wheel gap. Cutting this allows a wider wheel to make full use of the height of the wheel arch without rubbing on the lip if the car is low. The tubbing requires cutting of the panels, refabricating and re-welding the inner arch to the outer panel. This requires good welding skills to prevent warping of the panel.

2. 10s 12s 13s - it is a common misconception that different diameter wheels require different bodywork mods. if you had a 10 inch standard mini wheel and a 12 in the same overall height and width - there is no difference other than there is more wheel, less tyre on a bigger combo. The one exception to this is the bigger wheel will fit in a bigger brake disc and caliper. Where the difference comes in is the width of the tyre and the offset of the wheel. When they stick out further - they catch on guards when turning- hence needing to cut the guards.

3. How much cutting - on my car with 13x7 superlites and it is low, the front of the front guards are cut forward almost as far as the back tips of the bumper. In fact - the wheels are pretty close to touching the bumper.

4. Banded steels - take a steel wheel - cut it through the middle (looking from above the wheel) and weld in a strip of steel to make it wider. In many countries these wheels are not allowed anymore.

5. Tyre Profile - 165/70/10 - the 165 is the width of the tyre in millimetres - the 70 - 70% of the width is the 'height of the tyre) - so a a165/70 - would be 115mm from the wheel to the top of the tyre. A lower profile tyre has a smaller percentage eg a 175/50/13 - 50% of 175 is 87.5 - so a smaller tyre sidewall (but a taller wheel).

6. Beam Axle - replace the rear subframw with a 'beam' of steel that is mounted to the body with shocks and springs, like the diff in an escort mk1 etc - except without a diff inside it. Done to save weight and sometimes improve roadholding.

[Retro_10s]

Just to add to number 4. Banded Steels may not be allowed in many countries anymore but they ARE legal in the UK - provided they are banded by someone who knows what they're doing, and the MOT man is happy they've been done to a suitable level - then you're fine.

[Guess-Works.com]

Pretty much as above, but with the following minor alterations...

if you had a 10 inch standard mini wheel and a 12 in the same overall height and width

This is incorrect, the 12 inch wheel with the 145/70x12 tyre is the biggest std diameter wheel tyre combination ( even bigger than the sportpack 13" rim with a 175/50x13 tyre ), the 10" wheel/tyre combo is at least a good 5% smaller in diameter. however this apart it is the wheel width and offset which determines the need for body mods not necessarily the diameter. Wheels that need arch modifications are 12" wheels which are 6" or wider, and pretty much all 13" rims, irrespective of the tyre dimensions.

The description of the beam axle is correct, however, in terms of what is sold as a beam axle for the mini ( or should beam subframe ) is not, it is a beam which carries the two rear radius arms and "does away with" the integrated suspension of the mini in the standard subframe. Mini beam subframes need to be used with coil over shocks. So, not a true "Beam axle" as the suspension is still fully independent, where as a beam axle is not.

Finally 14" wheels, there are some people who run them ( roofless for example ), however your choice of tyre is limited... The problem is the rear raduis arm... there is a finite distance from the hub centre to the radius arm mount which cannot be moved, I think this is 11 inches... this means the maximum diameter for a wheel and tyre is 22" not allowing for any clearance, a standard sportpack wheel and tyre has an overall diameter of nearly 20", ie it has just over an inch of clearance to the radius arm.

A 14" rim with something like a 195/45x14 tyre would have an overall diameter of 21", this would clear, but only just !

Don't even mention 15's

Edited by Guess-Works.com, 19 January 2010 - 08:18 AM.

[roofless]

Finally 14" wheels, there are some people who run them ( roofless for example ), however your choice of tyre is limited...

A 14" rim with something like a 195/45x14 tyre would have an overall diameter of 21", this would clear, but only just !

yes - limited to 195/45/14 - which for the record ( alleged by chap at dunlop ) has rolling radius only 6mm more than a 175/50/13 - clearance on the rear arm swivel / bracketry is 11mm with the 195/45/14

[CobraV8]

Pretty much as above, but with the following minor alterations...

if you had a 10 inch standard mini wheel and a 12 in the same overall height and width

This is incorrect, the 12 inch wheel with the 145/70x12 tyre is the biggest std diameter wheel tyre combination ( even bigger than the sportpack 13" rim with a 175/50x13 tyre ), the 10" wheel/tyre combo is at least a good 5% smaller in diameter. however this apart it is the wheel width and offset which determines the need for body mods not necessarily the diameter. Wheels that need arch modifications are 12" wheels which are 6" or wider, and pretty much all 13" rims, irrespective of the tyre dimensions.

The description of the beam axle is correct, however, in terms of what is sold as a beam axle for the mini ( or should beam subframe ) is not, it is a beam which carries the two rear radius arms and "does away with" the integrated suspension of the mini in the standard subframe. Mini beam subframes need to be used with coil over shocks. So, not a true "Beam axle" as the suspension is still fully independent, where as a beam axle is not.

Finally 14" wheels, there are some people who run them ( roofless for example ), however your choice of tyre is limited... The problem is the rear raduis arm... there is a finite distance from the hub centre to the radius arm mount which cannot be moved, I think this is 11 inches... this means the maximum diameter for a wheel and tyre is 22" not allowing for any clearance, a standard sportpack wheel and tyre has an overall diameter of nearly 20", ie it has just over an inch of clearance to the radius arm.

A 14" rim with something like a 195/45x14 tyre would have an overall diameter of 21", this would clear, but only just !

Don't even mention 15's

Agree with above - but... I didnt say that a standard 12 inch wheel was the same as a standard 10 inch - just... if you had an identical height and width, they would have the same issues.. anyway.. you cant get a 10 exactly the same as a 12 or a 13, they are all a little different , and yes 13s are all wider - my comment was hypothetical.

PS - weight of wheels and tyres also comes into play. A wheel width and height in a 10 if.... was the same width and height as a 12 or 13 would be heavier on the larger wheels normally, as most of the wheels weigh more than the tyres. More weight - will mean more unsprung weight, which works against the shocks/springs. You will need stiffer shocks to counter heavier wheel and tyre combinations.

Saying all that - A mini handles well, can be made to handle better with good suspension geometry,shocks, sticky tyres etc - no matter what the diameter. I have had 10s 12s and 13s, and like them all. Go with what you like and make the car work with the one you have chosen.

[trafficface09]

i was wondering about servo assisted brakes. what setups would work with the standard servo currently fitted to my car? so that i could fit 10s. something a bit cheaper preferable

[trafficface09]

bump because their was an increase in new comers asking the same questions i used to, so i thought this might help.

oh and a tip read the FAQ it is great! it has got relevant questions and does contain decent guides.

thanks all

seems like there's a new question to add to the list, Lowering a car on 10s 12s and 13s. what and how does it work in each type

[Ethel]

A servo doesn't effect your wheel choice. If the car has the horizontal master cylinder combined with a servo it should have 8.4" discs & calipers, ruling out virtually all 10 inch rims.