12 replies to this topic

[n00b]

~~~~~Please delete this text before posting the topic~~~~~~
Please give your topic a title that quickly describes your problem. Just putting 'Help my Mini doesn't work' is useless to anyone trying to help.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hi i am some problems trying to get my new engine to crank over. i have swapped from pre engaged to inertia and failed as it gets jammed. i can fit the pre engaged motor on, only problem being i already have a solenoid attached to the wing. Is it possible to rewire to accept the pre engaged solenoid? the engine shold atleast crank over with its original starter motor intact and wired up.

ERic

[n00b]

Is it possible to rewire to accept the pre engaged solenoid?

if so is there a wiring diagram apart from haynes, it doesnt specify which motor is inertia or pre engaged.

[Dan]

It does specify in that the pre-engaged starter was added in 1985, so the diagrams from 1985 onwards are for the pre-engaged system. The diagrams for that system will show a starter relay driving the solenoid because the pre-engaged solenoid draws more current than the remote type and the starter switch isn't up to it. You can use your original solenoid to drive the pre-engaged solenoid, essentially using it as a large relay and isolating the switch from the higher load.

When you say it's getting jammed, did you swap the flywheel ring gear? What ring gear and what flywheel do you have? Did you space the motor out from the casing?

[cambiker71]

Easiest way is to connect the small terminal on the pre engaged starter motor to the battery cable terminal, when the wing mounted solonoid switches it will also switch the pre engaged motor. Worked fine for me, minimal wiring too, just a spade terminal, about an inch of wire and a ring terminal, job done.

[n00b]

When you say it's getting jammed, did you swap the flywheel ring gear? What ring gear and what flywheel do you have? Did you space the motor out from the casing?

The ring gear is original to the motor; only when the ignition is turned to start the engine the gear rotates to engage and gets jammed sumhow( inertia). i cannot see but find that untightening the motor retaining bolts sets the flywheel free and the crank can be overturned. the flywheel was using the pre engaged motor initially but after trying the inertia i will have to use the original.

Easiest way is to connect the small terminal on the pre engaged starter motor to the battery cable terminal, when the wing mounted solonoid switches it will also switch the pre engaged motor. Worked fine for me, minimal wiring too, just a spade terminal, about an inch of wire and a ring terminal, job done.

i had thought of this idea briefly but could not quite understand how i would wire it up. when you say connect the terminal on the pre engaged to the battery terminal do you mean wiring from the original solenoid to the motor solenoid ring terminal, and using a small cable put a ring terminal on the wire and feed it to the spade terminal on the motor solenoid?

Greatly appreciate your comments, thanks ERic

[Dan]

When you say the ring gear is original to the motor, do you mean the starter motor or the engine? You must use the right ring gear for the starter, there are two types with different numbers of teeth. It is possible to get the wrong one to work but it never runs very smoothly. Also when using the pre-engaged starter and ring gear on a pre-Verto flywheel the starter needs to be spaced away from the housing with a custom made shim. Check the FAQ on clutches for information.

[n00b]

When you say the ring gear is original to the motor, do you mean the starter motor or the engine?

Yes it is original to the starter motor, the pre engaged motor is what came off the engine. i will try the pre engaged in tomorrow and see if she cranks over. by the way the clutch assembly is a verto 'non ancient type'

If i wanted to use the inertia type should it still work fine and engage properly? my recent engine had a verto clutch system with an inertia working no problems. .

ERic

[Dan]

No it won't work well. The starter type was not changed at the same time as the clutch type, despite many people thinking it was. There are thousands of Minis with Verto clutches and innertia starters. The clutch is fairly irrelevant, it's the ring gear that's important.

So the whole engine, clutch, ring gear and starter are original to each other and you're fitting it all into a car with an earlier wiring system? to be honest the only thing that could prevent the starter turning properly in that situation is if it's not getting enogh juice. Have you fitted a decent engine earth? Just use the original solenoid as a relay to trip the new starter solenoid as said above.

[Ethel]

Go with what Dan says:

Use the starter cable off the old engine to connect the new starter to the same screw terminal on the wing mounted solenoid as the battery cable - you can leave all the brown live wires on there too. Run a new wire from the other (now empty) screw terminal to the spade on the new starter that operate it, it needs to be reasonably chunky, about the same thickness as the brown wires mentioned. Make sure you've got a decent earth on the engine.

Pre engaged starters don't turn on until the gear is fully engaged, hence the name. If it just clunks see if there's any voltage going down the little bridging cable on the starter.

[n00b]

Go with what Dan says:

Use the starter cable off the old engine to connect the new starter to the same screw terminal on the wing mounted solenoid as the battery cable - you can leave all the brown live wires on there too. Run a new wire from the other (now empty) screw terminal to the spade on the new starter that operate it, it needs to be reasonably chunky, about the same thickness as the brown wires mentioned. Make sure you've got a decent earth on the engine.

Pre engaged starters don't turn on until the gear is fully engaged, hence the name. If it just clunks see if there's any voltage going down the little bridging cable on the starter.

i will try this tommorow first thing. the car has new earth straps and a new charged battery reading 13v. thank you for clearing that up!

Edited by n00b, 12 April 2010 - 12:02 AM.

[n00b]

ok so this morning i wired the new starter, and it now works! Great

it turns the crank over nicely, only with a small problem. . theres a constant grindy noise when the starter turns.

should i keep using it as it is or is this a problem that will be short lived?

[n00b]

by the way i am using the pre engaged and both bolts that secure the starter are on tight

Edited by n00b, 12 April 2010 - 08:13 PM.

[n00b]

bumpy