14 replies to this topic

[cosi]

I just bought what I thought was a replica S with original MKI cooper s engine and box. The engine number starts with 9FSAY and the body type is YKG2S2-1122

The guy I bought it off originally listed it as a real S but didnt sell it as such as someone contacted him and said that he knew the previous owner way back in the early 90's and says its a replica. I then bought it after it relisted it as such.

I took it to a local mini expert and he was baffled, he wasn't sure. He mentioned that it has the raised bit in the floor pan just in front of the drivers seat, also mentioned that the car originally had wind up windows. There is a big 1122 stamped on to the firewall beneath the plate.

I guess my question is, how do I know for certain, 100% that it is a replica or real S

Here are some pictures. Please bare with me if these pictures show that it clearly isn't as I am new to minis and plan on a pro-motive kit.

Edited by cosi, 12 April 2010 - 02:49 AM.

[lindy119]

well, me being no expert i ain't got a clue, but if you enter the reg number into ur equivalent of the dvla that might help, full engine and chassis numbers will provide an answer too when evry1 in UK wakes up tomorrow morning, i mean this morning......just later!

S or not it looks like a very tidy mini you have there, will be nice to see if finished with the Promotive kit in it!

[cosi]

The problem with that is that I tried getting them to use the YKG2S2 number but everyone seems to think that the chassis number is on the radiator shroud. When that becomes eligible then the police stamp a number on to the body which is on the firewall. So basically with the road and traffic authority the car now has a police number and not that YKG number....

[steelelfc]

Genuine S or not, thats one nice mini mate, what did you give for it

[GreaseMonkey]

It is a mk1 for sure as it has the external hinge doors and early bins. Whether it's a genuine s or not I'm not sure sorry

[CobraV8]

If it isnt a mk1 it has an awful lot of bits from one on it:

- Doors
- A Panels
- Inner Wings
- Firewall
- Rear Side Windows
- Steering column

The grille, badges, seats, trim pieces all look correct - Morris Cooper S. It seems you have a right hand tank - good.

Wrong Bits:
- early cars did not have the front valance cut out at the edges
- the chrome trim is missing off the top of the front doors

Does it have S discs and rear drums? Are there brackets in the boot and a boot board?

Is the head a 12G940 (look under the rocker cover) and finally - compare all the engine and body numbers - you can see if they are matching from original - and if they are S items.

Personally - a great condition Mk1 with all the correct bits - is just as good as a genuine S in my eyes. (tho - I know - not worth as much). I like you car - very nice.

Edited by CobraV8, 12 April 2010 - 10:34 AM.

[mk1leg]

mk1 S should have a tall master brake cylinder and a servo..........the engine if orignal will have a ally plate rivited to the back of the block where mk3 fuel pumps fitted with either 970-1071 or 1275 stamped into it...the interior will have red/grey with gold or silver brocade door cards dash panel and parcel shelf and seats.....see picture...........



a 130mph speedo..........you need to buy this book.............



its bhe cooper and S bible...............

[adam_93rio]

If it isnt a mk1 it has an awful lot of bits from one on it:

- Doors
- A Panels
- Inner Wings
- Firewall
- Rear Side Windows
- Steering column

The grille, badges, seats, trim pieces all look correct - Morris Cooper S. It seems you have a right hand tank - good.

Wrong Bits:
- early cars did not have the front valance cut out at the edges
- the chrome trim is missing off the top of the front doors

Does it have S discs and rear drums? Are there brackets in the boot and a boot board?

Is the head a 12G940 (look under the rocker cover) and finally - compare all the engine and body numbers - you can see if they are matching from original - and if they are S items.

Personally - a great condition Mk1 with all the correct bits - is just as good as a genuine S in my eyes. (tho - I know - not worth as much). I like you car - very nice.

dont you think its just had a new front panel? my dads car is a mk1 and at times these are the only panels you can get hold of, its more likely to be a mk1 shell with 2 parts changed rather than a new shell with all the other parts changed surely

[george91]

It also has a weber and not twins, very nice car.

[mini-geek]

any pictures of the boot and boot floor? have you looked into getting a heritage certificate?

what engine size is it? I'm suprised to see rubber cones if its a 1275 S,

Edited by mini-geek, 12 April 2010 - 05:10 PM.

[tomgale]

that looks tidy! love red and black to be honest if it is an 's' then the promotive kit might be considered sacrilage by some.

[pdaykin]

It has clealy been "restored" to some degree and this can lead to difficulty in identifying it.

It is difficult to tell from the photos, but it doesnt look like an 'S to me. There are the "easy to forget to replace" bits, such as the chrome door surrounds. Then there are the "not many people know to bother changing" bits, such as the brake pedal.

Again, it could be the pictures, but the trim looks incorrect. It should be gold brocade trim - not just a plain grey inlay panel.

From an age perspective, it also has a strange mix of deals - chrome window latches, later washer bottle holder, twin tanks, etc ?

What age do you think it is ?

[taffy1967]

any pictures of the boot and boot floor? have you looked into getting a heritage certificate?

what engine size is it? I'm suprised to see rubber cones if its a 1275 S,

Very early 1275 S Coopers got rubber cones, but many more got converted to dry suspension when they Hydrolastic became troublesome or expensive to fix.

[pogie]

It seems to me that you are desperate for the car to be an S, but I would say you are ignoring the biggest clue which is the guy who knew a previous owner saying that it's a replica.

I don't know if Aus spec S's were the same as UK ones so it would be best to ask here - http://www.minicooper.org as there are some very knowledgeable owners / restorers in the Register and they could point out the relevant differences between the Mk1 shells.

[CobraV8]

If it isnt a mk1 it has an awful lot of bits from one on it:

- Doors
- A Panels
- Inner Wings
- Firewall
- Rear Side Windows
- Steering column

The grille, badges, seats, trim pieces all look correct - Morris Cooper S. It seems you have a right hand tank - good.

Wrong Bits:
- early cars did not have the front valance cut out at the edges
- the chrome trim is missing off the top of the front doors

Does it have S discs and rear drums? Are there brackets in the boot and a boot board?

Is the head a 12G940 (look under the rocker cover) and finally - compare all the engine and body numbers - you can see if they are matching from original - and if they are S items.

Personally - a great condition Mk1 with all the correct bits - is just as good as a genuine S in my eyes. (tho - I know - not worth as much). I like you car - very nice.

dont you think its just had a new front panel? my dads car is a mk1 and at times these are the only panels you can get hold of, its more likely to be a mk1 shell with 2 parts changed rather than a new shell with all the other parts changed surely

Sorry - yes I agree, didnt mean to make it sound like it wasnt a Mk1. Yes- probably had front panel (and many others at that age) replaced. In many cases a a genuine Cooper and Mk1 Mini of that age are bound to have had many bits replaced. It is like the replacement of a broom handle then later the broom head - is it still the original broom?

As far as converting a Mk3 (wind up windows) or later shell to Mk1 - it is possible. They would have had to replace a lot tho. I reckon one place to check would be to look inside the boot where the rear lights bolt in. See if it looks like it has had conversion panels fitted to change from Mk2/3 to Mk1. Also - measure the back window, mk1s are narrower than all others by a couple of inches. Tho - they could have cut the rear panel off a Mk1 Mini too (or a rear chop off a cooper with the boot floor brackets). I think that blanking plate in the engine bay next to the master cylinders is a Mk1 thing tho.

I would say if it has genuine papers, and mostly all the genuine bits, treat it as if it is genuine, fix up the missing chrome trim etc and dont worry about what someone says they know about it. If you really have to chase it down - contact the previous owner themselves rather than someone who knew the person, who.....

PS - as well as heaps of standard Mk1s turned into Cooper S replicas, there are plenty of Coopers turned into Cooper Ss as well. In that case there is just less to change (motor, discs). Many 'Genuine' Mk1 Cooper S cars will have been rebodied over the years. If nobody says anything - are they any more genuine?

Edited by CobraV8, 13 April 2010 - 10:56 AM.