10 replies to this topic

[Danny_California]

British Open Classic:
1992:

The BOC has developed yet another problem recently. It started off that when you went to turn the key sometimes you got absolutely nothing after ignition. ie dash lights on but when the key is turned theres just silence. No ticking or click or anything. When left for a few seconds and tried again it would start perfectly fine, but now it just simply will not start.

I tried turning the ignition on and shorting out the solenoid, and i got a good healthy whirring from the motor, but it did not seem like it was engaging with the flywheel. Now it seems odd to me that there be two problems happening at exactly the same time, so can someone clear this up for me now:
Should the engine turn over with the key set in the ignition position and a screwdriver shorting out the solenoid?

If not then thats ok, but if so then why does the key not cause the whirring noise, and why does the engine not turn over?

[Ethel]

No, the solenoid moves the drive gear to engage the ring gear; once the gear is fully engaged it bridges the contacts to power the motor.

British Open Classic:
1992:

The BOC has developed yet another problem recently. It started off that when you went to turn the key sometimes you got absolutely nothing after ignition. ie dash lights on but when the key is turned theres just silence. No ticking or click or anything. When left for a few seconds and tried again it would start perfectly fine, but now it just simply will not start.

I tried turning the ignition on and shorting out the solenoid, and i got a good healthy whirring from the motor, but it did not seem like it was engaging with the flywheel. Now it seems odd to me that there be two problems happening at exactly the same time, so can someone clear this up for me now:
Should the engine turn over with the key set in the ignition position and a screwdriver shorting out the solenoid?

If not then thats ok, but if so then why does the key not cause the whirring noise, and why does the engine not turn over?

[Danny_California]

So where is the whirring noise coming from when I short the solenoid? And why doesnt the key operate the starter anymore?
Also, thats confused me a bit, what does the term pre-engaged refer to if not the ring/drive gears?

[The-Womble]

Maybe the starter motor is on its way out. Perhaps the teeth on the pinion in the starter motor are worn out or something?

Sure its not just a flat battery? I had a similar thing happen on my project car and an overnight charge cured it.

[Ethel]

I've seen a really good explanation online somewhere.

Prengaged does mean the gears...

The solenoid is an iron slug inside an electromagnet, when you turn they key it energises the magnet and it pushes the slug against a lever that slides the drive gear along splines on the motor shaft and into engagement with the ring gear. when the slug reaches the end of its travel it runs into 2 contacts (the other end of the screw terminals you bridged) and connects the motor to the battery cable. Hence pre-engaged, the gear is engaged - then the motor is spun.

http://www.picoauto....gnostics_2.html

[Danny_California]

Ok thats cleared that up, cheers Ethel.

I removed the starter and cleaned up all the contacts and the iron core of the solenoid with contact cleaner, put it back on and it still did nothing. You just get a faint click from a relay (each time you turn the key) and then nothing. Does this point towards the relay being buggered? I read somewhere that they can fill up with water over time, can you prise the casing off them?

[Danny_California]

Still havnt been able to get it started, theres still nothing when you turn the key (apart from a single quiet click of a relay switching). When I bridged the connections on the solenoid the starter motor whirred but the engine did not turn over. Does this mean that the solenoid is ok? Because I've read that if you do this and it does try and turn over, then the solenoid is buggered. Can anyone else help out?

[Yoda]

If you pull the starter relay out of its connector and bridge terminals 30 and 87, you should find the starter will crank. If it does, then either the relay is shot or the feed to the relay is broken. If the starter does not crank, it could be any of the above plus switched feed to or from the relay at fault. although you are saying that the relay clicks. Take a small wire at this point and connect it from the small terminal of the starter to a known live supply (with the ignition off) and if the starter does not crank, then it could well be the starter or pre engage solenoid thats duff. This is assuming that the large cable from the battery is supplying power to the starter.

If you are unsure with electrics, it might be worth finding someone local to do these simple tests for you, because you dont want any further damage or personal injury to occur.

[Ethel]

you could bridge from the battery cable terminal to the spade terminal ; if that doesn't work the solenoid coil windings must be shot.

If you pull the starter relay out of its connector and bridge terminals 30 and 87, you should find the starter will crank. If it does, then either the relay is shot or the feed to the relay is broken. If the starter does not crank, it could be any of the above plus switched feed to or from the relay at fault. although you are saying that the relay clicks. Take a small wire at this point and connect it from the small terminal of the starter to a known live supply (with the ignition off) and if the starter does not crank, then it could well be the starter or pre engage solenoid thats duff. This is assuming that the large cable from the battery is supplying power to the starter.

If you are unsure with electrics, it might be worth finding someone local to do these simple tests for you, because you dont want any further damage or personal injury to occur.

[Danny_California]

Great, thankyou, I'll give that a go in a bit. I'm doing a module in electronics at uni, and did physics a-level so I should be ok. But having said that electronics has always been my least understood subject We just dont get along, cant believe what I cant see lol.
I've got the mpi parked next to it, I assume the starter/solenoid is the same in that, if I get no joy out of the above then I might try that out.

[Danny_California]

Fixed now! Took the relay off and there was a load of crap in there (including a dead fly lol) and once I put it back in everything was cool once more So I've cleaned everything up properly now and everything is back to normal. Thanks for the help guys!