14 replies to this topic

[minifan08]

hi everyone
i was looking at getting a kent md286 for my 1275 engine and im trying to find out if my car would pass its emissions test with that cam in and what it would be like for drivability.

thanks chris

[Cooperman]

The 286 is a rally cam which gives its power from around 3000 rpm up to 7000+ rpm.
To use this cam in any sort of road car you need to ensure that your gearbox will allow you to keep it 'on-the-am' whih usually means you need a lower final drive and, thus a lower ruising speed. remember, it's a competiton cam where aceleration is the main objective and top speed will be governed by the ability of the engine to pull up to 7000 rpm.
With the 286 you need a well gas-flowed high compression head big-valve, a good exhaust, suitable inlet system, e.g twin 1.5" SU's.
It has a lot of overlap on the cam timing, so, yes, emissions are always going to be an issue, but with a ompetition car that's not usually much of an issue. Driving with a 286 in traffic can be a bit difficult and without a close ratio box and a low final drive you'll be hammering the clutch a lot.

[minifan08]

The 286 is a rally cam which gives its power from around 3000 rpm up to 7000+ rpm.
To use this cam in any sort of road car you need to ensure that your gearbox will allow you to keep it 'on-the-am' whih usually means you need a lower final drive and, thus a lower ruising speed. remember, it's a competiton cam where aceleration is the main objective and top speed will be governed by the ability of the engine to pull up to 7000 rpm.
With the 286 you need a well gas-flowed high compression head big-valve, a good exhaust, suitable inlet system, e.g twin 1.5" SU's.
It has a lot of overlap on the cam timing, so, yes, emissions are always going to be an issue, but with a ompetition car that's not usually much of an issue. Driving with a 286 in traffic can be a bit difficult and without a close ratio box and a low final drive you'll be hammering the clutch a lot.

so would i be better to use something like a md276 rather than that one?

[Dave33]

The 286 is a rally cam which gives its power from around 3000 rpm up to 7000+ rpm.
To use this cam in any sort of road car you need to ensure that your gearbox will allow you to keep it 'on-the-am' whih usually means you need a lower final drive and, thus a lower ruising speed. remember, it's a competiton cam where aceleration is the main objective and top speed will be governed by the ability of the engine to pull up to 7000 rpm.
With the 286 you need a well gas-flowed high compression head big-valve, a good exhaust, suitable inlet system, e.g twin 1.5" SU's.
It has a lot of overlap on the cam timing, so, yes, emissions are always going to be an issue, but with a ompetition car that's not usually much of an issue. Driving with a 286 in traffic can be a bit difficult and without a close ratio box and a low final drive you'll be hammering the clutch a lot.

so would i be better to use something like a md276 rather than that one?

All depends on what sort of driving you do and what other mods have been done,if you drive in town alot be better with 276 if its back road mainly and open road then 286 will be ok,Would be of interest to know current spec,and final drive as im using 3.2 on a 1380.You wont need a close ratio box with a 286,as if set up well will pull from 2500rpm easily.
Admissions can be a problem if its not set up well.so will definetely need to play with needles to get it right.
If you are changing the cam make sure you get an adjustable vernier set up to optomisie the cam timing as just making sure the dots on pulleys line up is not very accurate,and a 2 degree movement either way will effect performance which is what your after when you change the cam.
Advancing cam timing gives much better road manners and makes it come on cam sooner,retarding gives more revs but runs flat at bottom end.
Let us know your spec
Dave

[minifan08]

well at the moment its pretty much standard apart from a stage 1 but im open to suggestions. i drive in both of those environments so would i be better with a 276?

[Dave33]

well at the moment its pretty much standard apart from a stage 1 but im open to suggestions. i drive in both of those environments so would i be better with a 276?

I think so as will still give good power,286 is pretty wild in 1275,not too bad in 1380.
if you drive in both types of conditions and you currently have stage 1 i would say 276 all day long,even with a modified head would be fine.

Hope this helps mate
DAVE

Edited by Dave33, 28 May 2010 - 04:46 PM.

[Yoda]

The 286 is a rally cam which gives its power from around 3000 rpm up to 7000+ rpm.
To use this cam in any sort of road car you need to ensure that your gearbox will allow you to keep it 'on-the-am' whih usually means you need a lower final drive and, thus a lower ruising speed. remember, it's a competiton cam where aceleration is the main objective and top speed will be governed by the ability of the engine to pull up to 7000 rpm.
With the 286 you need a well gas-flowed high compression head big-valve, a good exhaust, suitable inlet system, e.g twin 1.5" SU's.
It has a lot of overlap on the cam timing, so, yes, emissions are always going to be an issue, but with a ompetition car that's not usually much of an issue. Driving with a 286 in traffic can be a bit difficult and without a close ratio box and a low final drive you'll be hammering the clutch a lot.

Not trying to hijack this thread, but i have a 1380, high spec build with 286 cam, twin 1.5 su carbs, and an aldon yellow non vacuum dizzy and a severe amount of compression plus lightened and balanced everything with competition pistons. My issue is with starting and obviously i have my timing at around 30 btdc, so therefore, the starter struggles to get it to turn over. I have pre verto starter and ring and cant find a high torque starter for this. I have solved the problem by delaying the power to the coil until the engine has spun up and then it starts ok, I just wondered if anyone else has had this problem and also mention it as a caution to others going with a similar spec.

I am happy to be pm'd to save hijacking!

[Kerrin]

The 286 is a rally cam which gives its power from around 3000 rpm up to 7000+ rpm.
To use this cam in any sort of road car you need to ensure that your gearbox will allow you to keep it 'on-the-am' whih usually means you need a lower final drive and, thus a lower ruising speed. remember, it's a competiton cam where aceleration is the main objective and top speed will be governed by the ability of the engine to pull up to 7000 rpm.
With the 286 you need a well gas-flowed high compression head big-valve, a good exhaust, suitable inlet system, e.g twin 1.5" SU's.
It has a lot of overlap on the cam timing, so, yes, emissions are always going to be an issue, but with a ompetition car that's not usually much of an issue. Driving with a 286 in traffic can be a bit difficult and without a close ratio box and a low final drive you'll be hammering the clutch a lot.

Not trying to hijack this thread, but i have a 1380, high spec build with 286 cam, twin 1.5 su carbs, and an aldon yellow non vacuum dizzy and a severe amount of compression plus lightened and balanced everything with competition pistons. My issue is with starting and obviously i have my timing at around 30 btdc, so therefore, the starter struggles to get it to turn over. I have pre verto starter and ring and cant find a high torque starter for this. I have solved the problem by delaying the power to the coil until the engine has spun up and then it starts ok, I just wondered if anyone else has had this problem and also mention it as a caution to others going with a similar spec.

I am happy to be pm'd to save hijacking!

The mini-spares hi torque starter is available for pre verto and is made by Brise. It has completely solved my starting problems. They are not cheap, fortunately I got mine during the last vat free week.

Edited by Kerrin, 28 May 2010 - 10:47 PM.

[1293sleeper]

i just wen't for a high torque starter motor from minispeed.

[Dave33]

Minifan, im Running 10.5 to 1 ,190 psi compression test hot,no probs with standard starter.
What compression are you running?
You sure its not a bad earth or crap battery or old battery lead?
Would make sure everythings as should be before upgrading it.
Dave

Edited by Dave33, 29 May 2010 - 06:55 PM.

[Cooperman]

Ford Competitions had this starting problem with the BDA Esort rally cars and they fitted twin 12 v batteries, using them in parallel for all 12v servies, but 24 v for starting with a 24 v starter motor.

[liirge]

The 286 is a rally cam which gives its power from around 3000 rpm up to 7000+ rpm.
To use this cam in any sort of road car you need to ensure that your gearbox will allow you to keep it 'on-the-am' whih usually means you need a lower final drive and, thus a lower ruising speed. remember, it's a competiton cam where aceleration is the main objective and top speed will be governed by the ability of the engine to pull up to 7000 rpm.
With the 286 you need a well gas-flowed high compression head big-valve, a good exhaust, suitable inlet system, e.g twin 1.5" SU's.
It has a lot of overlap on the cam timing, so, yes, emissions are always going to be an issue, but with a ompetition car that's not usually much of an issue. Driving with a 286 in traffic can be a bit difficult and without a close ratio box and a low final drive you'll be hammering the clutch a lot.

Not trying to hijack this thread, but i have a 1380, high spec build with 286 cam, twin 1.5 su carbs, and an aldon yellow non vacuum dizzy and a severe amount of compression plus lightened and balanced everything with competition pistons. My issue is with starting and obviously i have my timing at around 30 btdc, so therefore, the starter struggles to get it to turn over. I have pre verto starter and ring and cant find a high torque starter for this. I have solved the problem by delaying the power to the coil until the engine has spun up and then it starts ok, I just wondered if anyone else has had this problem and also mention it as a caution to others going with a similar spec.

I am happy to be pm'd to save hijacking!

Like you suggest the advance is your issue, maybe installing Megajolt or similar will solve your problem, as the advance curve can be adjusted in such away you can start the car with less advance.

[Yoda]

Cheers for the comments. I apologise for creating a Hijack but i solved the problem in the end. Replaced all battery cables with heavier duty, replaced all earth leads with heavy duty, installed a direct earth lead from battery to starter bolt, all with new ring terminals and the car starts fine now. I did find one ring terminal on the original OEM battery lead with a slight ly high resistance and cured that first, then my experience with electric golf carts made me consider reducing volt drop by upgrading all the cables. Being unemployed at the moment and having the cabling in stock, was the cheapest option. I had considered twin batteries and banked solenoids, but was worried about spiking the rest of the system (stereo etc) with 24 volt feedback. and simply cannot afford a high torque starter right now.

Many thanks again for all the comments. I hope this helps anyone else with a similar issue.

[bmcecosse]

30 degrees advance is just crazy! That can't be right. This is why the vacuum advance was created - it allows the engine to start on very slight static advance - and then the vacuum pulls it up to give decent idling. Get a vacuum adavnce on there asap! But getting back to the '30 degrees advance' - the overall advance for a good A series at 5000 revs only wants to be in the range 34 -38 degrees - so your 30 degrees static is just not feasible........

[Sprocket]

Cranking advance should be no more than 10 degrees and within a range anywhere between 10 degrees after TCD to 10 degrees before TDC. The A series however tends to like 0 to 5 degrees before TDC. 30 degrees BTDC will make it difficult to start.

I Never regret buying my high torque starter. The inertia starter is pants.

Also worth noting that you should turn the engine over without depressing the clutch, especialy if its an uprated clutch.

Emissions will also depend on the age of your car

Edited by Sprocket, 30 May 2010 - 09:05 PM.