25 replies to this topic

[Poly_Patje]

Today I went to the big Mini meeting in the Netherlands and showed up outside the terrain, had to wait and tried to get the mini to drive again. But at that moment it went totally wrong, I revved the engine upto 3000 rpm and released the clutch in a normal way (not banging instant power on the line) and then I heard something snap. After further investigation the left shaft is snapped exactly in the middle of the shaft where the two sides are welded together. The driveshaft at the right is showing the same symptomes as in totally blank steel in the middle of the shaft when it is welded and the sides are still covered in black paint.

I wonder if this correct, especially when the mini have not driven more then 700km at all (50km with 3psi turbo boost and the other 650km with standard engine). Chris, is this normal and what can we do about this?

The picture to show the fracture:

 IMG_5802.jpg   138.55K   67 downloads  IMG_5810.JPG   148.94K   87 downloads
 IMG_5813.JPG   117.7K   40 downloads  IMG_5821.JPG   116.17K   34 downloads
 IMG_5822.JPG   141.85K   24 downloads  IMG_5823.JPG   180.77K   24 downloads

Edited by Poly_Patje, 26 July 2010 - 11:11 AM.

[R1mini]

I'm surprised they are welded, either way it's not right, I would get on the phone to Chris

Cheers
David

[Alburglar]

you could sleeve them also to add strength

[me madjoe 90]

you could sleeve them also to add strength

Id go with above, weld the two halfs and then slide sleeve over and weld ththat in place.
Obviously they would need to be balanced properly and the sleeve may cause problems when trying to balance them.
(Altho i wouldent know as i dont balance drive shafts)

[Poly_Patje]

Ok, I contacted Chris and he told me to send it directly to him. So I have to remove the shafts and send it by post.

I will keep you all posted.

[BlueminiJohn]

Yes, if it was me I would put a 4 or 5mm v prep in both halves of the shaft. Probably weld it with a low hydrogen welding electrode using MMA.
Then put a decent sleve over the top(after linishing the weld flush of course)
Remember to put the sleve on before welding the shafts lol(amount of times ive done stupid stuff like that....)
You could even use a stainless sleve and use a 312 mild to stainless electrode.
A straight edge would also be advisable.
Use a good blast of power either way, for decent penetration!

[Poly_Patje]

Update: today I received two sets from ZCars again (after paying for the spare drive shafts).
Friday I will put them in again and then I have to wait for good weather on Sunday to go to the Mini meeting / show again.

[Poly_Patje]

Critical update: the shafts are ok now! They look a lot stronger then the broken shafts.

Now the next part in the line is still broken. I first put in the left (short) drive shaft and when the wheel is rotated, the diff rotating with it. But after putting the other shaft in and turning the right wheel. the diff was not rotating. With both shafts in and rotating the wheel on the right, nothing is happening on the left side and the diff is not rotating with it. Normally the opposite wheel will turn too, but then in reverse to the other wheel or in the same direction (diff or fixed axel).

So tomorrow I will phone ZCars again to see what the next step will be and what we can arrange for this problem. For now I cancelled the show for next Sunday. There is no way of getting there with the Mini. Too bad... The past year I only made it to one show (out of 4 and was not able to drive the home).

Edited by Poly_Patje, 08 October 2010 - 07:34 PM.

[z cars chris]

Critical update: the shafts are ok now! They look a lot stronger then the broken shafts.

Now the next part in the line is still broken. I first put in the left (short) drive shaft and when the wheel is rotated, the diff rotating with it. But after putting the other shaft in and turning the right wheel. the diff was not rotating. With both shafts in and rotating the wheel on the right, nothing is happening on the left side and the diff is not rotating with it. Normally the opposite wheel will turn too, but then in reverse to the other wheel or in the same direction (diff or fixed axel).

So tomorrow I will phone ZCars again to see what the next step will be and what we can arrange for this problem. For now I cancelled the show for next Sunday. There is no way of getting there with the Mini. Too bad... The past year I only made it to one show (out of 4 and was not able to drive the home).

sounds like the diffs blown internally thats maybe why shaft broke in the first place
very unusual
call me tomorrow for a chat
chris

[Poly_Patje]

Chris, thnx a lot for the conversation.
I will take the diff out, remove the sprockets and send it over to you.

Maybe the shaft broke first and the power was instantly redirected to the right side, which damaged the diff instantly.

[AllanMcD]

I dont understand why a shaft would damage a diff or a diff damage a shaft ??????????
Allan

[Poly_Patje]

I dont understand why a shaft would damage a diff or a diff damage a shaft ??????????
Allan

Allan,

It went from 50/50 load to 100% load to the right side after the shaft snapped.
That is the only thing I know and with some logic I would think that an instant power shift could damage the inside.

Currently I am in discussion with ZCars about the diff and the costs. Before the shaft snapped, it was all ok and I had power on both sides. I know this because the shaft on the right side was also twisted in the middle. So from my point of view, the diff was damaged because of a faulty drive shaft.

Patrick (who is still waiting...)

[edsmini]

I dont understand why a shaft would damage a diff or a diff damage a shaft ??????????
Allan

Allan,

It went from 50/50 load to 100% load to the right side after the shaft snapped.
That is the only thing I know and with some logic I would think that an instant power shift could damage the inside.

Currently I am in discussion with ZCars about the diff and the costs. Before the shaft snapped, it was all ok and I had power on both sides. I know this because the shaft on the right side was also twisted in the middle. So from my point of view, the diff was damaged because of a faulty drive shaft.

Patrick (who is still waiting...)

i had problems with my diff throwing the passenger side shaft out, so once i bought a new shaft and had the cv joint machined put it all back together, it done the same again, ( the diff chewes the end of the cv joint off when this happens) so after weeks of the shaft popping out chris asked me to send the diff back (gripper) he explained that due to the shaft popping out that it had chewed one of the internal gears, so i had a bill of £150 to put it right, but being honest i dont feel that i should have paid for any of the repairs as the mini had only covered around 400 miles, and surely gripper diffs have some guarantee on them

other problems i had with the diff from new was very bad vibration at 70mph, heavy clunking when goiing around roundabouts, but after it came back it was like driving a different car, no probs since really

Ed

[Poly_Patje]

I dont understand why a shaft would damage a diff or a diff damage a shaft ??????????
Allan

Allan,

It went from 50/50 load to 100% load to the right side after the shaft snapped.
That is the only thing I know and with some logic I would think that an instant power shift could damage the inside.

Currently I am in discussion with ZCars about the diff and the costs. Before the shaft snapped, it was all ok and I had power on both sides. I know this because the shaft on the right side was also twisted in the middle. So from my point of view, the diff was damaged because of a faulty drive shaft.

Patrick (who is still waiting...)

i had problems with my diff throwing the passenger side shaft out, so once i bought a new shaft and had the cv joint machined put it all back together, it done the same again, ( the diff chewes the end of the cv joint off when this happens) so after weeks of the shaft popping out chris asked me to send the diff back (gripper) he explained that due to the shaft popping out that it had chewed one of the internal gears, so i had a bill of £150 to put it right, but being honest i dont feel that i should have paid for any of the repairs as the mini had only covered around 400 miles, and surely gripper diffs have some guarantee on them

other problems i had with the diff from new was very bad vibration at 70mph, heavy clunking when goiing around roundabouts, but after it came back it was like driving a different car, no probs since really

Ed

Ed, sad to hear that I am not the only one. You were lucky by identifying this big problem with the shafts before one of them snapped and would ruin your diff too.
I hope to get a satisfying answer from ZCars tomorrow on my birthday. I will keep my fingers crossed.

When I get news I will keep you posted!

[cptkirk]

I dont understand why a shaft would damage a diff or a diff damage a shaft ??????????
Allan

Allan,

It went from 50/50 load to 100% load to the right side after the shaft snapped.
That is the only thing I know and with some logic I would think that an instant power shift could damage the inside.

Currently I am in discussion with ZCars about the diff and the costs. Before the shaft snapped, it was all ok and I had power on both sides. I know this because the shaft on the right side was also twisted in the middle. So from my point of view, the diff was damaged because of a faulty drive shaft.

Patrick (who is still waiting...)

i had problems with my diff throwing the passenger side shaft out, so once i bought a new shaft and had the cv joint machined put it all back together, it done the same again, ( the diff chewes the end of the cv joint off when this happens) so after weeks of the shaft popping out chris asked me to send the diff back (gripper) he explained that due to the shaft popping out that it had chewed one of the internal gears, so i had a bill of £150 to put it right, but being honest i dont feel that i should have paid for any of the repairs as the mini had only covered around 400 miles, and surely gripper diffs have some guarantee on them

other problems i had with the diff from new was very bad vibration at 70mph, heavy clunking when goiing around roundabouts, but after it came back it was like driving a different car, no probs since really

Ed

Ed, sad to hear that I am not the only one. You were lucky by identifying this big problem with the shafts before one of them snapped and would ruin your diff too.
I hope to get a satisfying answer from ZCars tomorrow on my birthday. I will keep my fingers crossed.

When I get news I will keep you posted!

As you may have guessed from my earlier posts on Diffs I personaaly dont like the Gripper, it is MY OPINION that its too harsh for road driving and I am quite sure Al Reidy (who has had both in his car) will agree.

When I had my car dyno'd it flagged up a problem with the diff which is what prompted me to swap for the Quaife ATB. Chris disagreed that there was anything wrong with the gripper and commented that it was were the VTEC kicked in - but mine VTEC's at 3000RPM so it simply wasnt that.

Below is the output from the dyno, the beauty of the Rototest is that they give the output from each wheel, if you look at either of the two sets of curves (BHP or Torque you will see two lines, one is the left driveshaft and one is the right driveshaft attached to the dynos. Notice that one driveshaft for no reason (I spoke with the tuner about it and he said there was no drop in revs) loses drive then re-grips, spiking the graph - as it comes back it into line it causes the other driveshaft to spike.......C'mon you cant tell me that isnt the diff.....its the only thing in the car that variances the drive to either wheel.....


















Quaife do an ATB for use in bike engined cars too........................







Patrick - I hope you get yours sorted soon - and Happy Birthday!!!

Edited by cptkirk, 10 February 2011 - 02:59 PM.