19 replies to this topic

[1977 Loud_Mini]

Hi everyone, when funds allow i will hopefully be building a 1293cc engine of similar spec to the works rally minis in the 60's. My plan is to bore my 1275 to 1293 fit a re worked possibly large valve cylinder head, install a genuine 649 camshaft, possible twin 1,1/4" modified SU carbs and Aldon or similar electronic ignition as per some works cars. Basically i'm looking for the same sort of power but without the addition of twin webbers as some ran.
So my question is has anyone had any experience with a 649 (genuine AEA648/649) cam in a similar sort of engine, they were designed for the small bore engines so should give good power albeit rather lumpy up to 2500-3000rpm. I also have been informed i would need to change my oil pump drive from my 1985 metro engine (according to the guessworks site) to a pin drive type to run this sort of a cam?

Many thanks, Evan.

[samsfern]

im going to be running a 1330 with pipers 649+ version, which has the same characteristics, but gives more power. static compression raio should be between 11 and 13:1, ive got 12.5:1.

ive driven a car with a piper 649+ in, and it is a great cam, albeit a bit of a crap idle, not that it should be let to idle, but you know about it when it gets on cam, lol

why do you want to go for the "genuine" one? the piper version is so much better and more accurate due to modern machines, as well as developing more power.

also the engine would struggle to breath properly on 1 1/4's.

Edited by samsfern, 07 September 2010 - 08:31 PM.

[1977 Loud_Mini]

Thats good to hear that it's a good cam which gives good power. I want to build an engine so that you can feel the power kick in and by the sounds of it this cam is that i require. I was going for the genuine 649 cam for authenticity really as i wanted the same characteristics as the works rally cars being 1293cc etc but am now considering different options as i'm not too sure of the availability of the AEA 648 camshaft. I have spoken to someone who has modified twin 1 1/4" SU's as they have screws on the butterfly's smoothed off, porting to the carb itself (basically smoothed off for optimum fuel flow etc and they said that they would be perfect. Would twin 1 1/2" SU's be better as i'm sure i won't be able to afford twin split webbers as used by rally car GRX 310D on an SU (i think) manifold>?

Evan.

[samsfern]

at work the racing midgets have to run twin 1 1/4's due to regulations, their 1330 with the piper 649 +, the carbs have been modded to buggery, and their just not enough, twin 1 1/2's would be best, im going to be running them, still got to rebuild and modify them. you can get them pretty cheaply from an mgb at the scrapyard, if you can find any, i paid 20 quid for mine but their in a right crap state.

Edited by samsfern, 07 September 2010 - 08:39 PM.

[1977 Loud_Mini]

Thanks for the help, i'll keep an eye out for some 1 1/2" SU's then. How long until your 1330 is built an running. Is it safe/reliable to run as high compressions ratio as you will be, i thought the norm was in the region of 10.5:1 ?

[summs116]

ive got a old 649 cam that i had in my 1275 with a large valve head and a single 45 last year ,just have too collect it from SRE as i 4 got it wen i collected the engine,only changed it due to building a complete new engine
its was a great cam and yea you do have to run a different oil pump,easy to get tho

[samsfern]

Thanks for the help, i'll keep an eye out for some 1 1/2" SU's then. How long until your 1330 is built an running. Is it safe/reliable to run as high compressions ratio as you will be, i thought the norm was in the region of 10.5:1 ?

i managed to finish timing the cam in today, got it absolutely spot on, took ages and a few attempts, but as its in bits why not get it spot on. so thats the bottom end finished today, ive got a classic car show im going to be attending on the 12th, so it will be coming apart the weekend after that, and im going to ditch some weight, keep an eye out for my project thread when i open one. ive set myself a target, Run what ya brung @ santa pod on the 31st october, hopefully ill be able to get into 16's instead of crawling up there in 18.2 like i did at mini in the park, but it should be done well before then.

as for reliability, it shouldnt be a problem, i used to run 11.5:1 on my old mini, that i rolled, used it everyday with no problems. just need to use high octane fuel, like shell v-power or bp ultimate, i will also be using an octane booster additive to raise the octane to about 102, this is to prevent detonation. i admit, it may be a bit of a sod if you intend togo to shops in it (my mums cars for that, lol) or if you get stuck in traffic, but ill just have to see how i get on with it, should be fine.

Edited by samsfern, 07 September 2010 - 08:56 PM.

[1977 Loud_Mini]

ive got a old 649 cam that i had in my 1275 with a large valve head and a single 45 last year ,just have too collect it from SRE as i 4 got it wen i collected the engine,only changed it due to building a complete new engine
its was a great cam and yea you do have to run a different oil pump,easy to get tho

Do you know who the cam is produced by or is it the genuine 649 one?
Also how was it to drive in you 1275, was it quicker than a bog standard 1275 as i'm hoping to see a power increase to keep up with my mates cars

[1977 Loud_Mini]

Thanks for the help, i'll keep an eye out for some 1 1/2" SU's then. How long until your 1330 is built an running. Is it safe/reliable to run as high compressions ratio as you will be, i thought the norm was in the region of 10.5:1 ?

i managed to finish timing the cam in today, got it absolutely spot on, took ages and a few attempts, but as its in bits why not get it spot on. so thats the bottom end finished today, ive got a classic car show im going to be attending on the 12th, so it will be coming apart the weekend after that, and im going to ditch some weight, keep an eye out for my project thread when i open one. ive set myself a target, Run what ya brung @ santa pod on the 31st october, hopefully ill be able to get into 16's instead of crawling up there in 18.2 like i did at mini in the park, but it should be done well before then.

as for reliability, it shouldnt be a problem, i used to run 11.5:1 on my old mini, that i rolled, used it everyday with no problems. just need to use high octane fuel, like shell v-power or bp ultimate, i will also be using an octane booster additive to raise the octane to about 102, this is to prevent detonation. i admit, it may be a bit of a sod if you intend togo to shops in it (my mums cars for that, lol) or if you get stuck in traffic, but ill just have to see how i get on with it, should be fine.

Exactly why not get the timing spot on while you can while the engine is out. 16's seems very reasonable. I timed my mini 1275 0-60mph not sure how acurate the timer was but managed 13 seconds so your car seems very quick so my 1/4 mile time would probably be embarassing. It would be great if you could let me know how yours performs as i don't think i will have started to build mine by October as its my daily runner at the moment.
I used to run my slightly modified 998 on shell V power and it made a noticeable difference performance wise.

[samsfern]

thats my problem, mines the daily user, its just having the time to take it off the road for a few weeks, as i want to paint in the engine bay, relocate oil cooler, rewire the car, etc, and the insurance has run out on my other car, cant afford 1500 to insure it, and id rather sell it and spend the money on the mini. and i cant face having to pushbike to train station everyday to go to work, i love driving the mini, lol

Edited by samsfern, 07 September 2010 - 09:12 PM.

[summs116]

its stamped aeg 649 inbetween the lobes and the dizzy drive as far as i can remember,
as for power it was 93bhp but the rings were shot and compression loss on 2 cylinders.it was standerd 1275 bottom end with the cam,
14cc mini 7 race head and weber 45,
the compression was way too high but it went very well,come on cam around 3 all the way to 6500-6800ish
tick over was a problem but that was down to the head and just worn out rings,a friends got the 649+ in a 1330 too and that ticks over perfect really (lumpy as u would expect) fine on the road for daily driving too

[1977 Loud_Mini]

its stamped aeg 649 inbetween the lobes and the dizzy drive as far as i can remember,
as for power it was 93bhp but the rings were shot and compression loss on 2 cylinders.it was standerd 1275 bottom end with the cam,
14cc mini 7 race head and weber 45,
the compression was way too high but it went very well,come on cam around 3 all the way to 6500-6800ish
tick over was a problem but that was down to the head and just worn out rings,a friends got the 649+ in a 1330 too and that ticks over perfect really (lumpy as u would expect) fine on the road for daily driving too

Pretty damn good performance figures for a 1275. Just out of interest, how much would you be willing to sell the cam for?
I don't mind lumpy tickovers as it sounds as if you have a beast of an engine under the bonnet and its good to know it should perform reasonably for a daily drive.

Edited by 1977 Loud_Mini, 07 September 2010 - 09:16 PM.

[1977 Loud_Mini]

thats my problem, mines the daily user, its just having the time to take it off the road for a few weeks, as i want to paint in the engine bay, relocate oil cooler, rewire the car, etc, and the insurance has run out on my other car, cant afford 1500 to insure it, and id rather sell it and spend the money on the mini. and i cant face having to pushbike to train station everyday to go to work, i love driving the mini, lol

I think everyone who owns a mini likes driving them, i know i do. My money has all gone into my mini getting it to look as near to a rally car on the outside as i can get it. Now its just the engine i need to do so that i can have the performance to go with the looks

[samsfern]

i want to have my looking standard on the outside, but with it being pretty low with negative camber, and bonnet pins, and a 2" centre exit exhaust, and the revos, and bucket seats and harnesses it kind of gives the game away, lol, i do have an 850 badge on the boot though, lol

Edited by samsfern, 07 September 2010 - 09:22 PM.

[summs116]

its stamped aeg 649 inbetween the lobes and the dizzy drive as far as i can remember,
as for power it was 93bhp but the rings were shot and compression loss on 2 cylinders.it was standerd 1275 bottom end with the cam,
14cc mini 7 race head and weber 45,
the compression was way too high but it went very well,come on cam around 3 all the way to 6500-6800ish
tick over was a problem but that was down to the head and just worn out rings,a friends got the 649+ in a 1330 too and that ticks over perfect really (lumpy as u would expect) fine on the road for daily driving too

Pretty damn good performance figures for a 1275. Just out of interest, how much would you be willing to sell the cam for?
I don't mind lumpy tickovers as it sounds as if you have a beast of an engine under the bonnet and its good to know it should perform reasonably for a daily drive.

well first i collect it from slarks as im there on the 18th sept,check it over,im sure its still be fine but i paid £70 2 years ago so £30 +postage or i be at castle combe action day and i bring it there