17 replies to this topic

[Indetrucks]

Edit Title: MKVII

Hi all.. just posted in the introduction section and figured I'd aquire some knowledge here

Model:Mini
Year:2000

I have an MK3 Mini that has been riding a bit high in the left rear (almost an inch higher than the right).
I decided to take a peek with the wheels off and found that the Trumpet Horn popped out of the rubber cone.
This resulted in smashing the metal where the Trumpet rests into position inside the cone causeing it to seat incorectly.

I am about to order two new rubber cones (turns out both sides are damaged as a result of the Trumpets popping out).

My question is this:
What caused the Trumpets to pop out of the Cones? I have had the back end off the ground in the past when I installed exhaust and tires.
When lowering the car back down am I supposed to check the Trumpet and Cone fitment? It feels like the Trumpet just rests freely within the cone with no real method of securing it in.

I find it silly that everytime you raise and lower the rear of the vehicle you are to watch and be sure the Trumpet stays mated with the Cone. I am right in this assumption?


TIA

Edited by Indetrucks, 13 December 2010 - 05:01 PM.

[Cooperman]

The down limit of the rear dampers should stop the trumpets 'popping' out from the rubber cones. If the dampers are disconnected they will easily come out.
I guess if the suspension had been lowered and standard length dampers are still fitted, then this could happen, though I've never seen it.
Where do you live in SoCal? My great friend who has a 1071 Cooper 'S' lives in Newbury Park, Thousand Oaks, north of LA?

[xrocketengineer]

Hi all.. just posted in the introduction section and figured I'd aquire some knowledge here

Model:Mini
Year:2000

I have an MK3 Mini that has been riding a bit high in the left rear (almost an inch higher than the right).
I decided to take a peek with the wheels off and found that the Trumpet Horn popped out of the rubber cone.
This resulted in smashing the metal where the Trumpet rests into position inside the cone causeing it to seat incorectly.

I am about to order two new rubber cones (turns out both sides are damaged as a result of the Trumpets popping out).

My question is this:
What caused the Trumpets to pop out of the Cones? I have had the back end off the ground in the past when I installed exhaust and tires.
When lowering the car back down am I supposed to check the Trumpet and Cone fitment? It feels like the Trumpet just rests freely within the cone with no real method of securing it in.

I find it silly that everytime you raise and lower the rear of the vehicle you are to watch and be sure the Trumpet stays mated with the Cone. I am right in this assumption?


TIA

Hi there from (freezing) Florida,
Probably your cones have sagged over time as they take a permanent set, making the car sit lower. When you jack the car up the then they come off the seat. On mine, the cones were stuck to the trumpet and so they would come off the seat on the frame. So it happens with worn out cones.
I replaced the cones with red springs from MiniMania. there is some "looseness" of the spring when on jacks. However, the springs will not come off. I had to use a pry bar to get them in.

[Indetrucks]

The down limit of the rear dampers should stop the trumpets 'popping' out from the rubber cones. If the dampers are disconnected they will easily come out.
I guess if the suspension had been lowered and standard length dampers are still fitted, then this could happen, though I've never seen it.
Where do you live in SoCal? My great friend who has a 1071 Cooper 'S' lives in Newbury Park, Thousand Oaks, north of LA?

I'm close to LAX (Redondo Beach area). Thousand oaks is a little under an hour north of me
Thanks for the reply, although the car only has 4,000 miles on it, it's still 10+ years old. I imagine the rubber damper cones could need replacing.
The cones that came out look like this:


Although they have a threaded nut insert in the middle, they are free floating in the car (not attached in any way, form)
Are they supposed to attach in some way in the older models such as mine?

Hi there from (freezing) Florida,
Probably your cones have sagged over time as they take a permanent set, making the car sit lower. When you jack the car up the then they come off the seat. On mine, the cones were stuck to the trumpet and so they would come off the seat on the frame. So it happens with worn out cones.
I replaced the cones with red springs from MiniMania. there is some "looseness" of the spring when on jacks. However, the springs will not come off. I had to use a pry bar to get them in.

Funny you mention weather, yesterday here at the beach is was in the low 80's with beautiful blue sky's

Thanks for the info, I was going to order replacment cones (see pic above) from MiniMania at $99 each. What is the benefit to replacing the cones with the springs? Is it a straight swap with little to no modifications? Woud I need a sping compressor?

TIA

[Cooperman]

That is still very odd. Even with very old cones, the lower damper limit normally holds the trumpets in and the cones under slight compression loading. I wonder if the nylon cup in the radius arm into which the trumpet ball-end sits has collapsed, allowing the trumpet to slip out of the cone when the car has been jacked up.
The rubber cone is, indeed, just held in by the compression loading whilst the damper is fitted. To emove cones and rumpets you just undo the damper top nut (after removing the tank on the LHS) and it all just drops out. Is it possible that incorrect dampers, too long, have been fitted at some time?

[Indetrucks]

That is still very odd. Even with very old cones, the lower damper limit normally holds the trumpets in and the cones under slight compression loading. I wonder if the nylon cup in the radius arm into which the trumpet ball-end sits has collapsed, allowing the trumpet to slip out of the cone when the car has been jacked up.
The rubber cone is, indeed, just held in by the compression loading whilst the damper is fitted. To emove cones and rumpets you just undo the damper top nut (after removing the tank on the LHS) and it all just drops out. Is it possible that incorrect dampers, too long, have been fitted at some time?

I will take pictures of the Rubber cones when I get home from work today. Both are un-usable because the trumpets popped out and ended up resting on the rubber itself. When the weight of the car was applied, this ended up smashing the metal portion of the cone rendering it useless (not allowing the Trumpet to seat inside correctly).

Correct, in order to remove the Trumpet and Cone, I had to remove the dampers. Both of which appear to be stock (as is the complete car) with "Made in England" etched into them. When I removed the tires, the Trumpets could be wiggled by hand and both were not seated inside the rubber Cones as they should be. Is this normal or just an indication of warn out Cones?

On an unrelated question:
My mini has air conditioning installed as well as electric tilting headlights. I didn't know they made the mini with these functions.
What years came with the electric tilting headlights? (I have attached pics of the A/C unit).

Although purchased used, the car only has 4,000 miles on it.
Here are a few pics:

Attached Files

•  Picture4.jpg   62.51K   11 downloads
•  Picture5.jpg   62.36K   21 downloads
•  Picture7.jpg   64.52K   21 downloads
•  Picture16.jpg   62.03K   9 downloads
•  AC.jpg   44.56K   17 downloads

[Ethel]

The last, Multipoint injection, Minis have height adjustable headlights to comply with European regulations, Japanese export models had air conditioning with side mounted radiators - other MPI's have the radiator behind the grille.

[Cooperman]

That is still very odd. Even with very old cones, the lower damper limit normally holds the trumpets in and the cones under slight compression loading. I wonder if the nylon cup in the radius arm into which the trumpet ball-end sits has collapsed, allowing the trumpet to slip out of the cone when the car has been jacked up.
The rubber cone is, indeed, just held in by the compression loading whilst the damper is fitted. To emove cones and rumpets you just undo the damper top nut (after removing the tank on the LHS) and it all just drops out. Is it possible that incorrect dampers, too long, have been fitted at some time?

I will take pictures of the Rubber cones when I get home from work today. Both are un-usable because the trumpets popped out and ended up resting on the rubber itself. When the weight of the car was applied, this ended up smashing the metal portion of the cone rendering it useless (not allowing the Trumpet to seat inside correctly).

Correct, in order to remove the Trumpet and Cone, I had to remove the dampers. Both of which appear to be stock (as is the complete car) with "Made in England" etched into them. When I removed the tires, the Trumpets could be wiggled by hand and both were not seated inside the rubber Cones as they should be. Is this normal or just an indication of warn out Cones?

With the wheels off and the dampers still atached, the cones/trumpets should stay in place and be under slight compression. I've never seen a cone so worn that it allows the trumpet to 'fall-out' of the register on the cone whilst the damper is still attached. Think of the rally Minis which regularly 'jump' and have all 4 wheels at max down position many times during a rally - I know mine does - and the trumpets never come out of the cone. Even on rough rallies where cones will tend to collapse or sag considerably during the event, I've still never seen what you describe.
There must be a logical explanation and it could be failure of the nylon cup in the front end of the radius arm which may be sufficient to allow for this to happen. That is a known failure point and what you might like to check first.

[xrocketengineer]

Nice Mini and car collection. As far as the coil spring go, they are a direct replacement and should not need to be replaced ever again. However, I installed them using the factory trumpets with new nylon cups for the knuckle joints and it appears that the front sits higher than the back. Four fingers fit between the front wheel arch and the tire and only three in the back. The height from the ground to the engine sump is 6.5 inches which is the spec for the SPI. I think that hi-lo's might be needed for the back.
Yes, you need the spring compressor for the front ones, that is the reason for the threads in the cone. The replacement of the front cones is more involved. I had to deservice my air con in order to remove the accumulator that was on top of the front subframe top bolt.
Your air con unit appears to be aftermarket. The self leveling headlights are standard on the MPI model.

Edited by xrocketengineer, 13 December 2010 - 05:40 PM.

[minisilverbullet]

What years came with the electric tilting headlights?

I believe th last SPIs had self adjusting headlights, mine is a 1996 and has them!

Also are you sure, you have standard/original trumpets: has someone cut them to lower the car? or has some one fitted hilos?

As i understand it is less likely for the rear cones to sag and squash before the fronts do?

There was a member last year who complained about the trumpet popping out of its seating after he curbed a roundabout lifting the rear of the car.

Although they have a threaded nut insert in the middle, they are free floating in the car (not attached in any way, form)
Are they supposed to attach in some way in the older models such as mine? this is used to compress th cones for removal but only for the front two

Edited by minisilverbullet, 13 December 2010 - 06:24 PM.

[mk1leg]

Nice mini...............

[Indetrucks]

Also are you sure, you have standard/original trumpets: has someone cut them to lower the car? or has some one fitted hilos?

As i understand it is less likely for the rear cones to sag and squash before the fronts do?

I cannot be sure about the Trumpets as I purchased it used. However, the car is immaculate and should be all stock from what I can tell. The Trumpets appear stock with no visible alterations.

I would imagine the fronts wear out quicker than the rears based on the weight of the engine constantly on them.

I ordered new cones today. Of course I just put a full tank of gas in the car before I removed the left rear damper

[Cooperman]

Also are you sure, you have standard/original trumpets: has someone cut them to lower the car? or has some one fitted hilos?

As i understand it is less likely for the rear cones to sag and squash before the fronts do?

I cannot be sure about the Trumpets as I purchased it used. However, the car is immaculate and should be all stock from what I can tell. The Trumpets appear stock with no visible alterations.

I would imagine the fronts wear out quicker than the rears based on the weight of the engine constantly on them.

I ordered new cones today. Of course I just put a full tank of gas in the car before I removed the left rear damper

Just check the trumpet ball end seat - I think it has to be that which has split, allowed the ball to move forward to touch the metal of the radius arm cup seating and that has allowed the trumpet to cone interface to become a clearance.
One good mod which a lot of us do is to cut a rectangular hole in the rear seat panel, about 5" wide by 4" deep to gain access to the damper top nut without removing the tank or draining the petrol (OK, gas to you guys!). You make up a closing plate in aluminium (OK aluminum to you guys!) sheet and fit it with a bit of sealer, some rivnuts and set screws. It's then so easy to undo in the future.
I must say again, that in almost 50 years with Minis I've never heard of the cone separating from the trumpet unless the damper is dropped down from the top.

[Dan]

That A/C unit is an aftermarket installation, used to be advertised in Mini World and Mini Mag every month. I think the company was called Astro Air, based here in the UK. The genuine equipment, Japan spec unit was similar but better integrated into the car.

Your car is a Mk7, or MPi or Twinpoint Mini. And very nice.

[Indetrucks]

Just check the trumpet ball end seat - I think it has to be that which has split, allowed the ball to move forward to touch the metal of the radius arm cup seating and that has allowed the trumpet to cone interface to become a clearance.
One good mod which a lot of us do is to cut a rectangular hole in the rear seat panel, about 5" wide by 4" deep to gain access to the damper top nut without removing the tank or draining the petrol (OK, gas to you guys!). You make up a closing plate in aluminium (OK aluminum to you guys!) sheet and fit it with a bit of sealer, some rivnuts and set screws. It's then so easy to undo in the future.
I must say again, that in almost 50 years with Minis I've never heard of the cone separating from the trumpet unless the damper is dropped down from the top.

Just checked the Trumpet ball end and it is not cracked or damaged.

That A/C unit is an aftermarket installation, used to be advertised in Mini World and Mini Mag every month. I think the company was called Astro Air, based here in the UK. The genuine equipment, Japan spec unit was similar but better integrated into the car.

Your car is a Mk7, or MPi or Twinpoint Mini. And very nice.

Thanks for the info on the A/C Unit. It still blows nice and cold too