17 replies to this topic

[tracyjj]

Hi - a bit of a long one I'm afraid with a few questions but any advice would be much appreciated.
Some stupid woman cutting a corner crashed into my mini which was actually stationary at the time as we had stopped once we saw her on the wrong side of the road - I don't know yet if she has admitted liability to her Insurer. Due to the damage my car was collected & held in storage. I rang the number on my docs which turned out to be for Helphire & they sorted out a hire car for us & said to contact my Insurer - it's a Classic Car policy on an agreed valuation.
Insurance said it would be best to get everything done through them & then they can claim back from her insurance - they said they don't have specialist repairers in my area so I should get a couple of quotes & they would send an assessor too. So far so good.
We picked my car up from storage (they weren't sure if an assessor had been & neither were the insurance company when I rang them!) & took him to get quotes. Both mini specialists said the car is definitely repairable & are providing quotes. One figure is higher than my agreed valuation (I have been advised that it should be valued at approx 1k to 1.5k more but that's my fault!) but the other is going to be about 700 lower.
Yesterday I received a letter from the assessor - basically a standard photocopied thing saying repairs are uneconomical & they have advised the insurance to write it off. They said that "the salvage" (cheeky b*ggers, that's my pride & joy!) will be collected within 48 hours. Fortunately my car is no longer at the place that they assessed him.
So, a few questions I need help with please!
If I have a quote lower that my agreed valuation, are my insurance company obliged to pay for the repairs rather than write him off? Can the salvage people come & take my baby away while I'm not here & without me agreeing first? Presumably they can't write my car off & take him away without me agreeing? Is the stupid woman's insurance obliged to fix my car, whatever the cost? And, what do I do next!!??
I thought I would speak to HelpHire tomorrow & see what they say & also ring my Insurer & tell them it is ridiculous to want to write my car off when they haven't even seen the quotes for repair.
Please, does anyone know where I stand on this? It's bad enough seeing my little car all crumpled up through no fault of my own, without having to put up with all this too.
I got the insurance through Footman James, as I have for the last 5 years.
Thanks very much for reading (if you got this far!) - I just don't know where to turn.
(By the way, not having a go a women drivers as I'm a woman!)

[ANON]

phone the insurance ombudsman, they are very helpful.

[Chris_R]

My understanding is that only your own insurance company can insist on writing your car off; if your claim is ultimately against another party via their insurance as they were at fault then they can be held responsible for fully repairing your car and can't write it off on the basis of beyond economical repair. If it's not repairable then that's another matter, but as you've already had independent specialists say it is then you should be OK. Let Footman James know what you want, by phone then back it up in writing, and stand your ground.

[andydclements]

Regarding the fact the quote is lower tan the agreed value, consider two things. In many cases the agreed value is a ceiling that limits the amount the insurer could have to pay out, it still allows them to disagree with the value (if the assessor says it's not worth the amount you declared), that gives you a reduced policy premium. The second bit is the financial side, the £700 estimate isn't a quote, so the actual repair could come in higher (or lower) but there's also the cost of a replacement vehicle during the repair, less the salvage, it all points to the cheaper way for your insurer is to write the car off.

Now, turn to your financials.
How much is the car going to be worth once repaired, but having been subject to a large amount of accident damage? Keep in mind some forms of damage will not make any difference (wings removed and replaced etc) some will have an effect (floor rippled and then straightened out etc).
How much do the company value the salvage at? Could you get more for it if you sold it as a project or broke it as spares?
Could you negotiate with your insurer? Get a better pay-out (value of car minus salvage value) if you negotiate?


I don't know of any insurance policy where it guarantees to repair you vehicle after an accident, there are some cases where it's effectively impossible because you'd need to start with a new body engine etc, so the car isn't the same car any longer. While this probably isn't the case for yours, it is uneconomic, so the insurer will do what they are obliged to do, return you to the financial state (less excess and not taking account of any decreased post-accident value) you'd be in if the car wasn't written off.
The other party doesn't have quite the same luxury. You can attempt to claim off them (but you'd probably have to go to court) for the decreased value if the car is repaired.



Sometimes it is better to let your pride and joy go, take the money and purchase another car. That's for you to decide.

[AVV IT]

If I have a quote lower that my agreed valuation, are my insurance company obliged to pay for the repairs rather than write him off?

Insurers will differ slightly, but as a very rough guide they will generally write off where repair costs exceed around 60% of the vehicles market value (or the agreed value, in the case of an agreed value policy). You may want to consider approaching the insurer with a view to buying the car back from them after they have written it off and paying for it to be repaired yourself out of the settlement money. If they agree then you should end up profiting a little, as you will hopefully get more cash than both the cost of the repairs and buying the car back, but then your car will be devalued at resale as it will then be listed as a repaired Cat C write off.

[Ethel]

It would suit your insurers for you to claim off them, then to recover those costs off the other party - but it won't suit you*

The car remains your property & they can't dispose of it without your consent.

If you were claiming directly off the other party, then your agreed value is irrelevant, they owe you the value of replacing or repairing your Mini - whichever is less. An agreed value is part of the contract between you and your insurer - you had no contract with the person who ran in to you - or their insurers.

Telephone your insurers and tell them you are refusing their initial offer and they do not have your consent to dispose of your car. Also put it in writing (email would do) and get an acknowledgement that they've received it. The best place for your car would be at home, or at least stored, in your name, somewhere nearby.

How best to proceed depends on how likely you are to succeed in holding the other driver fully to account for the accident. If it's established you were stationary and they hit you that should be straightforward. Ask for a copy of the party's accident report and contact their insurers directly for a claim form.

There's often some misplaced loyalty in situations like this, since everyone started buying insurance online, the brokers have become little more than retailers for the insurance companies. They are actually employed by you to represent your interests, so if they are doing you over for a cheap settlement you could actually have a claim against them too.






*They will already be claiming a commission off the hire car company you are using and would normally expect a nice retainer of their "approved" repairer too. If you've had to find your own quotes, that's lost money to them so they'll be happy to settle quickly and turn their attentions to better pocket lining activities.

[tracyjj]

Hi - thanks for your replies, they've been helpful.
I know you prob think I'm looking at it too emotionally but at the moment cutting my losses isn't really an option - that car really means a lot to me & I have lavished a lot of car & attention (& cash, LOL!) on it. There's no way that I could get a similar standard of car for the money I would get - assuming I got the full agreed valuation amount. I also don't get how I can have an agreed valuation policy & the insurer say it's worth less - please tell me that can't happen as it's already undervalued as it is!
My understanding of the hire car is that the other party's insurance is responsible for that, but I have paid a premium which will ensure that, if they dispute the claim, I am not liable for the cost. So, presumably that cost isn't relevant to my insurer?
The damage is literally just cosmetic apparently so hopefully that would't affect the value too much. To be honest, the chances of us ever selling him are very slim! We're more likely to keep him going until he finally dies (hopefully not for a long time yet).
In the event that they insist on writing off are they obliged to offer me a buy-back? If it came to it I would just have to do that & struggle without a car until the repairs are finished. I've no idea on their salvage value as yet.
Can anyone reassure me that my car is not at risk of being taken off my drive by the salvage people while I'm at work? I'm really worried about that.
Thanks again.

[tracyjj]

Ethel & AVV IT - cross posted! Thanks for your comments.
I can't tell you how p'd off I am about this - all because some stupid bint wasn't looking! She even said she doesn't expect anyone to be on that road at that time of the morning! No doubt the story to her insurance was different, although going by the damage to the cars I don't see how anyone can say she's not to blame.
I'll just have to wait 'til tomorrow now once I can contact everyone. I feel better for knowing that they can't just come & get my car without my consent. We actually picked him up from the storage place on Friday so we could get some estimates & so the fees weren't mounting up. We had to pay for their costs before we could take the car so that's something else I'll have to see if we can get back.
Thanks again.

[Ethel]

We've seen that insurance companies have a habit of going on autopilot with claims. Put it in writing that the car isn't to be scrapped and maybe put a notice on the car, or block it in.

I don't see that you have anything to lose by pursuing the claim directly against the other driver & their insurers. Your insurers will still be liable for your accidental losses, just not any extra losses that you would have avoided by accepting their offer - more car hire, legal fees...

If you had legal costs cover they should really have put you in touch with a solicitor.

[Ethel]

If it went to court, the proof is on "the balance of probabilities", if there's a dirty great dint in the side of the Mini and her front bumper is smashed the probability is she hit you. It's well worth carrying a camera in your car - most of us do nowadays, get your mobile phone out and get snapping.

I had a similar adventure a few years ago. Some mad dentist slid his motorbike under my van then tried to claim I was on the wrong side of the road. I'm glad I went back with my camera before his bent bike got recovered. A few piccies of spilt fluids and bent forks & a decent scale diagram of the scene made getting his insurers to pay up straight forward.

[andy pandy]

as avvit said you may want to buy the car back as salvage, do a certain ammount of work to it youre self, to the best of youre ability, then get a repairer to do rest of work to reduce the costs, as mentioned if costs arrise over 60% car would be written of,

[tracyjj]

Thanks - will ring round tomorrow & find out what I need to do next. I'd be quite happy to buy back & get the work done if I have to, assuming they give me the option. I'm tempted to just get the work done & then see if I can claim back - if I actually had the cash now I'd have him in the garage already!
Still can't believe what a nightmare it is considering I'm not at fault here.
Thanks again.

[ANON]

I'm tempted to just get the work done & then see if I can claim back...

once an estimate is accepted you can ask for a cheque to be paid to you and do/get the work done yourself.

[tracyjj]

Well, after refusing to give up & just digging my heels in MY CAR IS GOING TO BE REPAIRED!!

I have to say that Footman James were useless - didn't provide any help or advice at all & just said I had to discuss it with the insurance company. HelpHire were worse than useless & are just interested in giving you a hire car as soon as poss so they can claim the money back off someone. Out of all the people I spoke to at Equity only 1 was was helpful & understanding - so, between discussing it with him, the assessor & a couple of garages at least my car will be sorted!

Thanks everyone for your advice. This has been the most stressful couple of weeks for a long time. Hopefully once everything is sorted I will be able to post some pics & recommend a good garage! (To be honest I'm not counting my chickens until I've got confirmation by e-mail & work has started!)

Thanks again.

[SPORTPACK]

Well, after refusing to give up & just digging my heels in MY CAR IS GOING TO BE REPAIRED!!

I have to say that Footman James were useless - didn't provide any help or advice at all & just said I had to discuss it with the insurance company. HelpHire were worse than useless & are just interested in giving you a hire car as soon as poss so they can claim the money back off someone. Out of all the people I spoke to at Equity only 1 was was helpful & understanding - so, between discussing it with him, the assessor & a couple of garages at least my car will be sorted!

Thanks everyone for your advice. This has been the most stressful couple of weeks for a long time. Hopefully once everything is sorted I will be able to post some pics & recommend a good garage! (To be honest I'm not counting my chickens until I've got confirmation by e-mail & work has started!)

Thanks again.

Just read this thread and graet that it looks like having a happy ending!! Another one DOESN'T bite the dust!
Jonathan