27 replies to this topic

[Carlos W]

I'm lying in bed and the tvr has just started up round the corner and driven past, there's also a bloke with a pair of Harleys, they're really loud, but he's never been pulled, he just pulls the clutch in when he sees a copper! An actual figure for noise limits would be much more useful than not significantly louder than standard, what's significantly louder?

I suppose this would cause all sorts of problems with manufacturers etc!

[abe46]

this is not a very nice thread to find hahahaha!

Just put a 3" playmini centre exit system on mine

But my rule right now is clutch in when you see a copper!

I do this even if im going up hill haha If a copper is behind me il keep it at low revs and they just generally think i struggle to make it up a hill :L

[mini_legend]

have you ever considered going into the legal profession? i hope not as that's pretty awful advice
[/quote]

Considered law, no thanks, I'd end up as one the other hundreds without a job, or if i did it'd be marriages etc which would bore me to death.

[quote name='Ethel' post='2095460' date='Apr 2 2011, 11:40 PM']I'd say he has a vocation for politics



It is very bad law, but you should look closely at what the actual offence is before deciding to fight it.

Regulation 97 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 provides that no vehicle shall be used on a road in such a manner as to cause any excessive noise which could have been avoided by the exercise of reasonable care by the driver. If the copper thought you were making too much noise then you were, if the magistrates choose to believe him - they usually do.[/quote]

As for politics, well it is something I am considering Starting a biology degree in september but I have no clue what I truly want to do after this. I know that is may well be this 1986 regs etc etc, but does it not seem a backward system where people are more likely to get fined for a loud exhaust than for acts of violence, burning poppies or whatever! Call me what you want, but I'd rather speak against things that seem wrong, than to become another sheep in the conservative flock!! I have just put a 3 inch striaght through sports exhaust on my mini, and if I get pulled, I don't think I'd be paying the fine in a hurry!

Thing what you want, but I am one of the few people left who will actually speak out against what I believe (note I am using my opinion, not forcing it as a fact onto people) is right!!
Cheers
JK

[charie t]

I am one of the few people left who will actually speak out against what I believe

arguing with yourself, brilliant!

[Ethel]

Getting off topic, but I'd commend you for sticking to your guns if you believe you're in the right. Sadly, the system takes a more pragmatic approach. so you have to accept the risk they'll cane you the same as someone who's just pushing their luck.

It would be interesting to slap a public information request on the local constabulory though. If you set yourself a target for a subjective offence, like exhaust noise, then it seems obvious you've already lowered the test of the offence.

It is for the police to prove an offence has been committed, but subjective tests make them the judge as well as the enforcer.

[mini_legend]

I am one of the few people left who will actually speak out against what I believe

arguing with yourself, brilliant!

How is this arguing with myself? I made a statement about myself!

Getting off topic, but I'd commend you for sticking to your guns if you believe you're in the right. Sadly, the system takes a more pragmatic approach. so you have to accept the risk they'll cane you the same as someone who's just pushing their luck.

It would be interesting to slap a public information request on the local constabulory though. If you set yourself a target for a subjective offence, like exhaust noise, then it seems obvious you've already lowered the test of the offence.

It is for the police to prove an offence has been committed, but subjective tests make them the judge as well as the enforcer.

It is off topic now :/ I know it might be risky, but people have proven, in 90% of cases relating to things like, speeding offences, exhaust noise etc, if you appeal you are likely to get away with it! They don't like the fuss, they just expect you to take it, which I wouldn't! Just saying
JK

[charie t]

How is this arguing with myself? I made a statement about myself!

i normally speak for what i believe in not against

[mini_legend]

How is this arguing with myself? I made a statement about myself!

i normally speak for what i believe in not against

Nice and pedantic there mate lol. You know what I mean, I'll stand up for what I believe!

[1984mini25]

Didnt we decide in another topic that the authorities would have one hell of a job proving that a mini with an after market exhaust was louder than one with a standard one due to the fact that no one ever published a figure, and there are no/ very few mini's around with the original, perfect condition system still fitted.


The legislation isnt a bad idea, but damn hard to enforce, especially with classic cars.


I personally would be challenging the police to prove my car is louder than another standard mini designer, if they could find one.


Isn't it up to the police to prove your guilty, not you to prove your innocent?

But, any aftermarket exhaust WILL be louder than a standard exhaust system. Besides I can prove it seeing as the 25 is still running a standard peashooter, although not the original.

But saying that, as long as your not ragging it and the exhaust system fitted isn’t excessively loud then I personally can’t see a problem.

[ANON]

I am one of the few people left who will actually speak out against what I believe

arguing with yourself, brilliant!

How is this arguing with myself? I made a statement about myself!

PRICELESS. maybe you would be well suited to politics after all

[ROBBIE 1]

Just moody coppers ,pay the fine take it on the chin ,i think there wrong but probably a whole load of hasstle to contest ,but keep yer pipe infact go louder ,just watch out for rozzers and take yer foot of the gas next time .

[minibarnerz]

Interesting article I found on BBC....

Devon and Cornwall police recently bought seven decibel (dB) meters which they are using to measure the sound levels of vehicle exhausts.
They have already started issuing FPN's and fines for ‘Overly Loud' exhausts.
BBC - Sound meters tackle noisy drivers
The police say that trained officers will be using the equipment in areas such as The Hoe in Plymouth which is regarded as a ‘trouble spot' for drivers of cars with modified exhausts.
A police spokesman claimed that "During the first trial in Newton Abbot, Devon, a driver was fined £30 when his car exhaust was making more than three times the acceptable level of noise".
The report later says that "Vehicle noise levels should be between 82 and 89 decibels", although whether this was the ‘Legal' level or just the ‘Acceptable' one is open to discussion..
In regard to the motorist issued with the FPN, the report say that his vehicle was found to be putting out 93dB.
The maximum permissible level to pass the BIVA test is 98dB, which is down from the SVA limit of 101dB
ISO 5103

There is nothing in the report that show what testing procedure the police are using and officers are trained in the ISO 5103 process, which is the internationally recognised procedure for conducting stationary noise tests on motor vehicles and details, amongst other things, microphone placement and the engine rev range that should be used for such tests.
A recent Dft document assessed the various methods of noise testing for vehicles and details some of the problematic issues involved with roadside tests involving inexperienced testers.
Vehicle Noise Test Procedures 
Devon & Cornwall Constabulary's response
We contacted Devon and Cornwall police with these concerns and received the following response for Sgt Keenan of the Traffic Division.
"We are looking at two different offences
Modifying a vehicles exhaust beyond the ‘standard' EU limits and Producing excessive noise.
For this we have purchased 7 Cat 1 testers which are set up and used in accordance with ISO 5103 testing procedures.
We take a number of ambient readings and readings taken at different engine rpm's from a fixed distance and angle to the rear of the vehicle to get an average Db reading.
The figure we use in 82-89 dB, this is the EU Limit for Type approval, even though there is no actual legal dB limit on road vehicles.
89dB is a large 4x4 at full throttle.
We will consider prosecution at 90dB and so far, in testing we have had one vehicle at 103dB and one where we had to abort the test due to complaints about the noise level while the test was being conducted."
We asked about the position with an SVA'd vehicle, where the threshold for a failure is 101dB and were told that and said that "If you produced an SVA certificate we would not prosecute if the level were over 90dB".
"If you fail the noise check but claim that you did not modify the exhaust, in other words the exhaust is how it was when the vehicle was purchased, we will not prosecute based on modifying the exhaust, but will use the Excessive noise legislation instead.
This is an area where the ‘Tone' of the exhaust is as important as the noise level and is at the discretion of the officer and can be a reason for the vehicle to be tested."
Sgt Keenan also said that, if a vehicle was reported as too loud, but when tested was under the level they would consider showing the readings to the complainant as a way of educating the public in terms of what is and is not an ‘illegal' exhaust system. Also, the readings are considered to be guidelines to assist in court cases but are not a basis for court action in their own right.
Some interesting things come out of the response.
D&C constabulary are taking a firm, but sensible approach to this issue, in that they are conducting 'Proper' tests as opposed to just 'Sticking a probe in the exhaust' and they are aware that there are certain vehicles that will fail the roadside checks even though they have passed elsewhere.
They also hope to be able to use this testing to 'educate' people on the subject of exhaust noise.
 
Interesting as I was pulled in Cornwall about 9 months ago with a golf with a 98Db at 3000 rpm but that was not an exhaust I put on... Still got fined tho!

http://www.the-ace.o...-cost-cash.html

Edited by minibarnerz, 03 April 2011 - 09:26 PM.

[Scallywag630]

Surely there is not one law for SVA'd vehicles and one for all others. If there is legislation and documentation that proves VOSA approved vehicles at 100db, then that should be enough to quash any prosecution.