13 replies to this topic

[mike.]

I've been trying for ages now to get these KAD steering rack limiters on and secured properly and it is just not happening. This is my second set now as I destroyed the first ones trying to clamp them on tight and my second set is pretty much written off aswell. I'm fitting these to stop my wheels rubbing my wings on full lock - I have trimmed my wings, but not quite enough and don't want to cut them further as the car has just been sprayed.

Anyway, these rack limiters are designed to be spread apart and put on the steering rack, then secured using a cable tie. Now KAD stress in the instructions that they must be on tight and say that if there is any chance they could move up the rack, then it'd be better to not fit them at all as it is dangerous if they move.

Firstly Kam has a thread on these here: Link

He's right in saying you need to boil these things to soften them up, because they're really stiff and you can't spread them out the 25mm odd thats needed to get them over the rack.

I've done this can got them on the rack, i've got them in place and had a cable tie round them and this is where the problem lies. Once the limiters have been spread enough to get them on the rack, they never really go back to almost fully closed and so need to be clamped tight to keep them in place. The problem i'm having is that a plastic cable tie is not strong enough to close the rack limiter up enough for it to hold it in place. I've tried various techniques of tightening the ties and in the end even bought a cable tie gun to grip the ties and get them as tight as possible - The ties always snap before the limiter is anywhere near close enough to what i'd call secure on the rack - i.e. it could still be span around by hand quite easily. I've also tried clamping the limiter on with mole grip and then wrapping the tie round, but as soon as the grips are removed the tie isn't tight enough.

So today i've tried again, this time i've got stainless steel ties to overcome the problem of them snapping. I found that these couldn't be made tight enough either because the way they 'grip' allows the tie to slacken by 1-2mm after it has been pulled, which is enough to not secure the limiter tightly.

The next idea I had was to apply a couple of layers of electrical tape onto the rack to essentially make it thicker and give the limiter something to compress and grip onto; (the plan was then to cut off the excess tape that wasn't under the limiter) this sort of worked and the limiter did grip into the tape better. So I clamped the limiter up with mole grips again, and then wrapped a cable tie round and tightened it with the cable tie gun i've got. This worked and the limiter was held tightly and was gripping into the tape underneath and I was happy they wouldn't move, even once the excess tape was trimmed off:





As you can see the limiter is pretty battered after my many attempts of clamping the dam things on! You can also see that that gap isn't quite closed up, however the photos of the ones Kam fitted weren't fully closed either and like I said they were on tight at this point.

So then I thought i'd move the rack to see how much they limit the racks travel and this is wear the real problem comes in. The cable tie hits the outer part of the rack! The only thing actually limiting the racks travel is the cable tie itself. What is this all about, surely its only going to take a few times at full lock for this to snap the cable tie off and allow the limiter to slide up and down the rack - Which KAD say is dangerous and could lock the steering.

Here a pic of what I mean, you can see how the tie is being forced over as it comes into contact with the rack:



I'm going to email KAD about this, because I can't see what i'm doing wrong, or what I could do to avoid this problem.

I just want some second opinions on what i'm doing. I'm doing it right aren't I? Also if there are any other people who've fitted these - Did you experience this problem?

The most obvious way of getting the things clamped on and secure is to use a hose clip - I've tried this also and as with the cable tie, the screw part of the hose clip simply hits the rack and thats all that limits the steering...

Thanks for any help on this

[MRA]

From what you are saying, it would appear that yo uare trying to get clearance on the front of the front wheel arches ? These are not for this issue, these are for when you have fatter tyres that rub on the inner wheel arch.

The front will either need to be cut or raised to clear, but definately one or the other

[mike.]

Well my wings have been trimmed, but like I say not quite enough to get full lock clearance. Its fine otherwise and the problem only occurs with the last maybe quarter of a turn of the wheel to get to full lock. KAD say these limiters give you 7 degrees less steering travel, which should be plenty to give me full lock without rubbing. Surely the 7 degrees less will also help with front clearance on the wings too?

Its not a major problem as I rarely use full lock, but I just thought for £7 these would sort it and avoid any MOT issues with wheels rubbing at full lock.

[Wil_h]

Mine went straight on. And I never heated them, just forced them over. I wonder if the heating is causing a permanent distrortion?

[Sprocket]

Have you actually spoke to KAD about these issues? KAD are highly unlikely to sell a duff design product, they don't have to. You buy KAD, you buy quality.

[Sprocket]

Mine went straight on. And I never heated them, just forced them over. I wonder if the heating is causing a permanent distrortion?

Plastic actualy has a memory. Heating them back up now they are fitted migh allow them to return to their original shape. The problem now lies in hw you heat them back up. Perhaps a hair drier?

[Sprocket]

Just a thought, but where should these sit on the rack?

I can see them being a tight fit in the rack housing and the rack runs freely through them. By virtue that they want to spring open, might suggest that if you compress them up and push them into the recess on the rack housing, they will stay there?

[mini13]

I fittefd these too with no issues, never heated them just forced them over as will describes,

[mike.]

I thought the heat might have distorted them, although it was only gentle heat with hot water. I tried putting them on without heating them first and nearly tore my fingernails off, they're stiff plastic after all. Maybe I just need to man up and rip them apart and rag them on...

Sproket, KAD say they should fit onto the end of the steering rack as pictured. I'm going to speak to KAD because even if I get them on and on tight without a problem as wil and mini13 say they have done - i'm still going to have the problem of the cable tie hitting the outer part of the rack before the limiter actually limits its travel.

Wil and mini13 - Have you noticed this problem because I can't see any way round it? The spacers themselves would have to be much slimmer to allow the cable tie to fit into the recess in the rack aswell.

The only other thing i'm thinking of trying is to get another set and not bother with stretching or heating them, but simply cutting them into 2 parts and then clamping them on. This way would be much easier and I wouldn't be fighting with them to get them to compress.

I'll see what KAD say anyway and email them some pics but i'm still interested to see how others haven't had the cable tie clearance issue i'm having...

[Kam]

Hey Mike, I can't still believe your having problems with this! I thought you sorted them out ages ago

I think the cable ties you get in the pack are quite thin, I wouldn't use any thicker ones, also in your picture where you turn to full lock the limiter should be just tucked inside the housing but only by a few mm, when it is tucked inside, the cable tie outer should not be resting against the casing like yours

You could maybe cutting off a couple of mm where the slit is, so essentially they will shut together a bit more, but really you shouldn't need to as the two sets you in the pack are for both the thicker and thinner racks

As for the heating of the plastic, I don't use a blow torch on them! They are boiled a little just to soften them up, you still need to force them on but not as much as when they are bone stock dry.

And theres nothing wrong with boiling them, I was told to do this - by KAD

[mike.]

haha I know, I gave up on them ages ago but i'm back onto them now!

Whats to stop the limiter going in as far as mine does though? I've tried sliding the limiter into the rack to see how far it actually does go in and the whole thing near enough goes right in - So unless the cable ties provided by KAD are about 3mm thick I can't see how the cable tie doesn't hit the rack.

I'm thinking the best way will be to take them off, cut them into 2 half's and them clamp either side on - This way the cable tie won't be battling to compress them - Failing that i'll glue the dam things on haha.

I'm going to send KAD an email now anyway and see what they say.

[Sprocket]

Looking at this again, it lools like there is a groove in the collar for the cable tie to sit in, and the groove is more towards one end.

[Kam]

Yes the groove HAS to be on the outside (tyre end) like Mike has done, the limiter itself hits the inside of the housing - thats all that stops it

My engines out at the moment, so I'll try and get a picture for you tomorrow of the limiter at full lock to show exactly how it sits and how far the cable tie is from the housing

[mike.]

See but the main problem i'm having is that the limiter goes so far into the rack outer that the cable tie will always foul the rack before the limiter actually limits the steering. The following picture shows what I mean. This is how far the limiter goes into my rack before it will limit the steering, and you can see that the groove for the cable tie is half into the outer rack and with the diameter of the limiter and the square end of the cable tie, its too big to fit inside the rack outer so instead fouls it which will eventually just snap the cable tie off.



I've been speaking to KAD - Very quick and helpful replies i'll add.

I've shown them the photos and he said from the photos i've sent him, my rack seems different from any he's seen before?!

They reckon that boiling water is enough to distort the plastic slightly, making it stay spread apart and therefore hard for the cable tie to close up. They say that they use a hot air gun and heat and cool the limiter, whilst bending it apart and after a few times the plastic becomes more forgiving and can be spread open by hand.

They also suggested fitting the limiter without a cable tie. This is because the only reason they stress that the limiter has to be on tight and cannot move is simply to keep it square on the rack. Thats all the cable tie is for, because if the limiter can skew at an angle, it can become wedged in the rack outer and thats where it could become dangerous. So basically if you get these on the rack without distorting them with too much heat, they'll be a fairly tight fit on there own, and so won't be able to skew at an angle.

So my suggestion to KAD was to glue them on. I thought if I degrease the rack and key the surface of the limiter and the rack, then apply some good epoxy glue such as araldite. Then I can clamp the limiter up square and even using a hose clip whilst the glue sets.

KAD say they can't actually tell me to do that since if the glue fails and damage is caused - They could be liable. However he said if I use some good epoxy glue he said he'd be happy to do it on his own can and that the hose clip to keep it on square was a good idea.

So i'm going to give glueing them on a go - Anybody got some suggestions for the best type of glue to use? I was just going to get some araldite on it, but if theres anything better I should consider i'd prefer to get that.