17 replies to this topic

[dunf]

Mini 1.3 mpi

ok, so working on our mini for the very first time. Got a few jobs to do including fixing some oil leaks and replacing swivel pins, track rod ends and brake overhaul. Things were going along nicely, got advice on here on what tools and parts i'd need. I have an airgun so no drama with any of the hub fixings etc. Did driveshaft seals and gearbox selector seal. Removed n/s hub for cleaning and swivel pin replacement. Got old ones off no problem, but then had two issues with fitting the new ones. First of all I did the lapping thing I saw on here, bedding the pin into the collar with lapping paste. Before i did this they were really rough and jerky to move. Then......

1. Bottom pin took loads of shims to allow swivel once torqued for trial fit. All the old shims, all the new ones and some extra i'd bought. Then when i started to remove shims one by one, I got to a stage where the pin over one half of the joint was loose but in the other half was immobile. After a while i even tried cutting a shim and using 180 degrees on the stiff half but surely thats not right? (p.s, spring not fitted for trial as per instruction)

2. Top pin broke when i was lapping it. The metal has pared away in the seat (pic attached). These are 'genuine' ones as well. Thought i would splash out to avoid potential quality issues with pattern parts.

Where did it go wrong?

[bmcecosse]

Must have been over-hardened I would say! Take them back for a refund. The lower one needing far too many shims - sure the little seat was properly bedded down in the hub carrier, and right way up! ?

Edited by bmcecosse, 19 July 2011 - 07:49 PM.

[Twisty]

isnt there supposed to be a seat inserted into the bottom swivel joint? if so did you put this in?

Edited by Twisty, 19 July 2011 - 08:10 PM.

[dunf]

yes, had the seat in and proper located in place. Also one thing about the setup is the locking tab washer, there is 4 with the kit, 2 with ears and two without. Not sure what goes where but regardless these arent made very well so when the grease nipple is located the washer doesnt lie perfectly flat. Had to torque down the dome nut just to squash this down before i started. The kit was from minispares.

Not so worried about the broken one, I'll just replace it but the one thattightens unevenly is a bit of a difficult one.

[bmcecosse]

The broken one is a serious worry - if the others are from the same batch they too are likely to be over hardened and may snap in service - sending the car under an 18 wheeler....... This is a Safety Critical item - send them back! All 4 tab washers need to have grease nipple locators....... And of course - you must NOT use half shims etc - there be madness......

Edited by bmcecosse, 19 July 2011 - 09:36 PM.

[Keith Grendahl]

I am installing Cooper S brake conversion kit from minispares on my MK1 and I also had to use all shims in the kit on two of the four swivel pins. I wager that there is over .050 under each domed nut. Now I wonder if I should reinstall the pins I removed, they seemed to have a reasonable amount of shims.

[jaydee]

The broken one is a serious worry - if the others are from the same batch they too are likely to be over hardened and may snap in service - sending the car under an 18 wheeler....... This is a Safety Critical item - send them back! All 4 tab washers need to have grease nipple locators....... And of course - you must NOT use half shims etc - there be madness......

I'm warried about that too.. i've just fitted a new set saturday, which didnt break when lapping but showed the same issues of the extra ammount of shims required.
It already sounded very strange to me as i've never had to use 6 shims before and now seeing this i'm a bit warried about them breaking..

[Ethel]

Defo take them off & take them back. We've had several tales of Mini with failed ball joints in the last few years, it was unheard of back in the day. What brand are they, and have you any other info on them - batch numbers supplier etc?

[jaydee]

The hub is still apart as i still need to fit the engine in before (i was doing some engine out job on the car) so i can give a further look at mine.
Although the guy is talking about the so called genuine balljoints, mine are commercial set bought off minispares (i've never had any problem with the set, i've used dozen of them..)
I have to give a look for the batch number, but there wasnt any useful information in the package.. As i've said, mine lapped quite fine but required a huge amount of shims, 6 if i recall correctly, to fit them, exactly what the OP reported..
I have to add, of the 6 shims some were the very thin ones but i've used all the 4 that come in the package plus some of the old (were in good conditions), that never happened me before and i've done this job regullary in the last 10 years..
Apart from that they're fine in the hub so i said - never mind, they've probably changed something in the tolerances (??) so once lapped they're more tight then require more shims(??)
I'll take the balljoints apart for a new visual inspection after looking at this thread, but i dont feel quite safe.. :S

[dunf]

ok, just checked everything again today. The parts box is branded UNIPART. They were the ones marketed on minispares as genuine. The top swivel pin needs TEN (10) shims to sit as good as i can get it, (which still aint that good). Decent smooth movement once torqued except if I try to roll the pin around in a full circle. At the point closest to the hub centre it gets too tight too move for a section approx 60 degrees. Any more shims and it gets loose up and down play, any less and it wont move at all.

I measured the shims with my micrometer and they total 1.68mm. That does not include the tab washer. Thats a lot of shims and more than i have if I plough ahead to do all 4 pins.

[MRA]

Must have been over-hardened I would say! Take them back for a refund. The lower one needing far too many shims - sure the little seat was properly bedded down in the hub carrier, and right way up! ?

Not overhardened..... this would make them too hard agreed, however they wouldn't fail in that mode..... that looks like material failure to me incorrect grade used etc....

Also one thing about the setup is the locking tab washer, there is 4 with the kit, 2 with ears and two without. Not sure what goes where but regardless these arent made very well so when the grease nipple is located the washer doesnt lie perfectly flat.

The locking tabs are as follows... with the 2 ears, these are for drum brake models only, withOUT the ears are for disc brake models only.

They never were made that well, they always needed a little help.

Now I wonder if I should reinstall the pins I removed, they seemed to have a reasonable amount of shims.

Definately NOT ..... you will not be able to match up the mis-shapen ball and cup nut.... this can result in the assembly going tight in use which will eventually lead to fatigue failure.... RTA here we come etc....

We've had several tales of Mini with failed ball joints in the last few years, it was unheard of back in the day.

Not unheard of ..... just very quiet, and not necessarily noted to be the cause of an accident, more the result etc....

I'll take the balljoints apart for a new visual inspection after looking at this thread, but i dont feel quite safe.. :S

Again .... this is really not recomended unless they haven't been used of course....

Take them all off your car and get them back to UNIPART as soon as possible...

This is a possible lethal issue to you and / or others


Editted due to missing off the "out" from without

Edited by mra-minis.co.uk, 20 July 2011 - 03:43 PM.

[Spitz]

"The locking tabs are as follows... with the 2 ears, these are for drum brake models only, with the ears are for disc brake models only."

Can you clarify.....maybe a typo
Thanks

[mike.]

Theres been a couple of balljoint issues recently with genuine ball joint kits - Don't know how genuine they are!

I've always used non gen and never had any problems.

[MRA]

"The locking tabs are as follows... with the 2 ears, these are for drum brake models only, with the ears are for disc brake models only."

Can you clarify.....maybe a typo
Thanks

"The locking tabs are as follows...

With the 2 ears, these are for drum brake models only.
WithOUT the 2 ears are for disc brake models only."


Thanks

[Sprocket]

New old stock parts is where its at these days