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How Do You Tell A Cooper From A Non-cooper?


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#1 PaulColeman

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 12:37 PM

I'm a bit of a Mini virgin really - I did own one back in the 70s but haven't had anything to do with them for 25 years. That is, until my daughter decided she wanted a retro one. So we've now got a 76 Mini 1000 that we (that means me) are going to bring back to life. Anyway I digress... what I wanted to know was how do you tell a Cooper apart from a non-Cooper? Is it the engine size or more than that? I have no idea! What I'm really referring to are the 60s or 70s (were Coopers made in the 70s?) ones rather than the later Rover types.

There's probably a complete write up on this website somewhere but I'm new so you'll have to forgive my ignorance.

Thanks, Paul.

#2 Mini_Magic

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 12:44 PM

Mini Cooper - Wikipedia

#3 PaulColeman

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 12:55 PM

Hmm... so there's no way to tell it apart unless you check for disc brakes, twin carbs and rip the engine apart to measure the stroke? Weren't there any differences in terms of bodywork or trim? Didn't they have two petrol tanks? I'm just curious so that when I find one in a barn somewhere I'll know it's genuine :)

Paul.

#4 Mini_Magic

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 03:02 PM

It really depends on the individual Mini, some have twin tanks, some have disc brakes, some have twin carbs. It's even harder to tell these days with replicas, reshells, retros etc.

#5 Bungle

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 03:39 PM

do you mean a 60's cooper or 90's cooper ?

#6 Cooperman

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 03:47 PM

Here we go, and I'll probably miss something.

The Mk.1 and Mk.2 Coopers had:

Chrome trim strips around the door window apertures
A remote gear change consisting of a long aluminium alloy casting containing the gear shift linkage.
Twin 1.25" SU carbs on an alloy inlet manifold
A 3-into-1 tubular exhaust manifold (a lot will now have an LCB exhaust manifold)
Disc brakes, 7" on the 987 and 998 and 7.5" on all 'S' models
A 100 mph speedo on the 997 and 998, a 120 mph on the Mk.1 'S' and a 130 mph on the later 'S'. Other Minis had a 90 mph speedo.
All Cooper models had a boot board covering the spare wheel in the boot mounted on brackets. No other Minis had this.
After about March 1966 all 'S' models had twin 5.5 gallon fuel tanks
After about April 1966 all 'S' models had Hardy-Spicer drive shaft couplings
All 'S' models had 10 head studs and one head bolt instead of just 9 head studs on the 850, 997 & 998.
All 'S' models had rear drums with a built-in spacer.
The 'S' steel wheels had holes around the web of the rim
All Coopers, 997, 998 and 'S' models had short chrome interior door handles, unlike the 850 which had door cable pulls.
The Mk.1 Cooper and 'S' had grey seat and interior trim with a coloured fleck effect. Most Mk.2 Coopers had black trim.
A Cooper usually has a different coloured roof, although single colour cars were made.
The Cooper 'S' has a brake servo as standard.
The Mk.1 Cooper and 'S' have black leather-cloth trim on the lower and upper dash rails and right up the A-post to the head-lining.

Those are the main visible differences. I could go on to explain how to tell a genuine Cooper 'S' engine from a non-'S' 1275 unit and will do so if you wish.

I hope this helps

#7 Lewis998

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 05:11 PM

Engine number is a good place to start, and check with the dvla to see what the car is registered as, I can't remember the name but there are several sites that will tell exactly what model a car is based on it's reg/chasis etc etc

#8 PaulColeman

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 05:29 PM

Here we go, and I'll probably miss something.

The Mk.1 and Mk.2 Coopers had:

Chrome trim strips around the door window apertures
A remote gear change consisting of a long aluminium alloy casting containing the gear shift linkage.
Twin 1.25" SU carbs on an alloy inlet manifold
A 3-into-1 tubular exhaust manifold (a lot will now have an LCB exhaust manifold)
Disc brakes, 7" on the 987 and 998 and 7.5" on all 'S' models
A 100 mph speedo on the 997 and 998, a 120 mph on the Mk.1 'S' and a 130 mph on the later 'S'. Other Minis had a 90 mph speedo.
All Cooper models had a boot board covering the spare wheel in the boot mounted on brackets. No other Minis had this.
After about March 1966 all 'S' models had twin 5.5 gallon fuel tanks
After about April 1966 all 'S' models had Hardy-Spicer drive shaft couplings
All 'S' models had 10 head studs and one head bolt instead of just 9 head studs on the 850, 997 & 998.
All 'S' models had rear drums with a built-in spacer.
The 'S' steel wheels had holes around the web of the rim
All Coopers, 997, 998 and 'S' models had short chrome interior door handles, unlike the 850 which had door cable pulls.
The Mk.1 Cooper and 'S' had grey seat and interior trim with a coloured fleck effect. Most Mk.2 Coopers had black trim.
A Cooper usually has a different coloured roof, although single colour cars were made.
The Cooper 'S' has a brake servo as standard.
The Mk.1 Cooper and 'S' have black leather-cloth trim on the lower and upper dash rails and right up the A-post to the head-lining.

Those are the main visible differences. I could go on to explain how to tell a genuine Cooper 'S' engine from a non-'S' 1275 unit and will do so if you wish.

I hope this helps

Thanks for the info :)

Yes I'd be interested to know how to tell the genuine engine apart.

Cheers, Paul.

#9 tomgale

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 07:45 PM

Here we go, and I'll probably miss something.

The Mk.1 and Mk.2 Coopers had:

Chrome trim strips around the door window apertures
A remote gear change consisting of a long aluminium alloy casting containing the gear shift linkage.
Twin 1.25" SU carbs on an alloy inlet manifold
A 3-into-1 tubular exhaust manifold (a lot will now have an LCB exhaust manifold)
Disc brakes, 7" on the 987 and 998 and 7.5" on all 'S' models
A 100 mph speedo on the 997 and 998, a 120 mph on the Mk.1 'S' and a 130 mph on the later 'S'. Other Minis had a 90 mph speedo.
All Cooper models had a boot board covering the spare wheel in the boot mounted on brackets. No other Minis had this.
After about March 1966 all 'S' models had twin 5.5 gallon fuel tanks
After about April 1966 all 'S' models had Hardy-Spicer drive shaft couplings
All 'S' models had 10 head studs and one head bolt instead of just 9 head studs on the 850, 997 & 998.
All 'S' models had rear drums with a built-in spacer.
The 'S' steel wheels had holes around the web of the rim
All Coopers, 997, 998 and 'S' models had short chrome interior door handles, unlike the 850 which had door cable pulls.
The Mk.1 Cooper and 'S' had grey seat and interior trim with a coloured fleck effect. Most Mk.2 Coopers had black trim.
A Cooper usually has a different coloured roof, although single colour cars were made.
The Cooper 'S' has a brake servo as standard.
The Mk.1 Cooper and 'S' have black leather-cloth trim on the lower and upper dash rails and right up the A-post to the head-lining.

Those are the main visible differences. I could go on to explain how to tell a genuine Cooper 'S' engine from a non-'S' 1275 unit and will do so if you wish.

I hope this helps

Thanks for the info :)

Yes I'd be interested to know how to tell the genuine engine apart.

Cheers, Paul.




1275 's' engines have chest covers at the back like small bores, but 'normal' 1275s dont i think. probably some other stuff concerning an extra head stud I think but thats the easiest way.

#10 Cooperman

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 05:32 PM

The 'S' is easy to identify as it has, as said, rectangular cam chest covers on the back of the engine. The head has 11 studs, well that's 10 studs & one bolt. You can measure the stroke by taking a plug out and using a probe to measure the distance between TDC & BDC.
It's less easy to check on a 998 Cooper, but the differences I listed are a good start.




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