24 replies to this topic

[CooperYeo]

Hi Guys! Decided recently i want a conversion done on my mini.
Ive decided i want to use the vts or gti engine in the saxo or 106 as there decent engines if they have been looked after.
One huge problem is i dont have a clue where to start!!
One thing that is quizing my is the subframe!
Do i get one made or customise the current one?

Any help will b greatly apprecaited!!
Stu!

[Magic jason]

you could always go mainstream and stick a vtec or vauxhall engine up the front anything to stop you from taking the french road!

[E.L.M.O]

Hi Guys! Decided recently i want a conversion done on my mini.
Ive decided i want to use the vts or gti engine in the saxo or 106 as there decent engines if they have been looked after.
One huge problem is i dont have a clue where to start!!
One thing that is quizing my is the subframe!
Do i get one made or customise the current one?

Any help will b greatly apprecaited!!
Stu!

not saying it cant be done..... but can I ask why have you choosen one of those engine? Is it because you like the VTS or GTI stigma that may come with having one of those engines in your mini? The fact it hasnt been done yet might answer that either the engines are no good in most peoples opinions, or its simply not an easy job to do as they wont fit easily (anything will fit if your willing to do the work or spend the money. Bulk heads can be moved and longer fronts can be purchased and or created)

I also know that everyone has to start somewhere, but no offence, if you dont know if it will fit, have to ask advice on "if it will fit" and you dont know where to start, you probably dont have the skill to carry out the conversion. Sorry to be so blunt.

VTEC's and TYPE R expensive to buy, but they are a proven engine with kits readily avalible.

For a cheaper option consider a Vauxhall engine? small block or big block. Again kits are readily avalible.

Or even go bike engined?

I hope you do sucseed as it would be nice to see something different, but I dont think the engine are particually great when compared to the vaux or honda which have the kits all ready to go. But like I said, it would be nice to see something different.

Good luck man!

Edited by E.L.M.O, 27 October 2011 - 03:18 PM.

[Andyagl]

im pretty sure much can go in the front of a Mini with work. Not many engines differ that much, still same basic principle. get a tape measure and get measuring. the vtec and k series engines are quite on the large size and they fit, so i dont see why it shouldn't. i got a k series in mine. built the frame quite easily. If its summit you still want to do, get in touch, i wouldn't mind the challenge.

[M J W J]

The fact it hasnt been done yet might answer that either the engines are no good in most peoples opinions, or its simply not an easy job to do as they wont fit easily (anything will fit if your willing to do the work or spend the money.

There are a couple of mini's that have had the pug/citroen tu engine fitted. There was one on piston heads ages ago and I think that evolution on the 16v mini club did one using a metro frame.

In answer to the original question. The main problem with fitting them into a mini is the gearbox struggles to clear the tower of the mini sub frame when sitting in a reasonable place to get the front end on and not have extreme drive shaft angles. The solution would be to either fit a different gearbox, but then there is the problem of making adapter plates and getting a clutch to fit, or build a sub frame without towers and use coil overs.

As others have said if you are having to ask the most basic questions on an engine conversion then either you haven't used the search function (please do as you will see there are a few other threads where people have asked a similar thing) or you probably don't have the skill to do an engine conversion. There is no bolt in conversion kit for this engine.

Look for a guy called batespeed. He did a citroen ax engine into a mini.

My first suggestion would be to get a tape measure and get measuring.

I personally would not bother with the gti/vts engine due to the problem of the gearbox clearing the frame and also that every vts saxo of pug gti I have come across has been thrashed within an inch of its life so the engine will most likely need to be rebuilt therefore adding to the cost.

The power levels you will achieve with a gti/vts engine can be achieved by many of the existing engine conversions. A Vauxhall c16se engine produces 100 bhp.

[mini_mad69]

I've seen it done, but the car had a ridiculous nose extension on it, alot more than the usual 90mm. ((which i still think looks wrong)

[E.L.M.O]

The fact it hasnt been done yet might answer that either the engines are no good in most peoples opinions, or its simply not an easy job to do as they wont fit easily (anything will fit if your willing to do the work or spend the money.

There are a couple of mini's that have had the pug/citroen tu engine fitted. There was one on piston heads ages ago and I think that evolution on the 16v mini club did one using a metro frame.

now you mention it, I think I remember that

[batespeed]

dont listen to the doubters ! the psa tu engine is a cracker ! and it does fit in a standard length roundnose mini, but it is a bit tight. ive put a tu3s (1360 cc, 8 valve, all alloy, twin choke solex carb, 7000 rpm red line, 85 bhp , 85 lb ft torque ) version in my mini , this is the second mini ive had it in. as far as i know the external dimensions of the blocks are the same throughout the range, whether its a 1000cc or 1600cc, the 1600s and some of the 1400s have an iron block though

the 1360 goes well in a mini,(with 85 bhp) the 1600cc 16 valve with 120 bhp would be a flying machine ! but there is a blt of work involved.
heres an in car video of my one, its got a long striding saxo box which pulls 35 in first, 55 in second, and 85 in third (at 7000 rpm) on 12 inch wheels

Edited by batespeed, 29 October 2011 - 09:53 PM.

[mini93]

iv got a 1600 16v GTI, they are quite the same dimensions block wise yes but with the injection manifold and exhaust manifold it end up quite a big lump. plus up the front you still have the alternator, even further than my 4 branch manifold

[batespeed]

like that you mean ?


if you space out the grille at the bottom you hardly notice it

[batespeed]

the twin cam 16 valve head is wider than the sohc 8v one and the manifolds are different, and although i have no experience of fitting one in a mini, i THINK it would fit, meaby needing some mods to the inlet manifold.
but then a lot of transplants require manifold mods, the main thing is the block and gearbox do fit (although not much clearance) without modifying the bulkhead or main cross member, ( and with the ever increasing legislation regarding modifications to body shells, this is no bad thing) her are a few dodgy photos of my subframe





as you can see, there is a lot of fabrication involved !

[E.L.M.O]

Looks like you could get a battery in there as well!

dont listen to the doubters !

Also known as realists!

only kidding. Seriously I hope you do give it a go. I'm sure you will learn a heck of a lot even by just trying. I just think for a first time build your better off getting an off the shelf kit and using the small block vaux. Thats just my personal opinion. I think its a better engine, the kits are off the shelf and there are plenty of people who can offer advice. Vs the french engine which is an inferier engine (again, IMO) you will have to do a hell of a lot of fabrication an dtry and error work and there is only a handful of people who can give exerienced advice.

Depends on how much of a challenge you want, how deep your pockets are, and how well you can pick up the required skills

[batespeed]

your probably right ! ANY non mini engine is a big job, i think the nissan micra is probably the easiest , and see how much work is in that !
cooperyeo, how much mechanical experience do you have, do you have a garage/workshop with welding gear and engine hoist etc ? i am a self employed mobile mechanic with a fully equiped garage and fabrication/welding experience, and i know minis inside out. but it still took me about 80 to 100 hours to convert my mini the first time........................... you just have to overcome obsticles as they turn up, there is no one to ask if no one has done it before........................unless you are confident in your own skills then its probably best to stick with something you can buy a kit for....................or an a series

you cant buy a subframe to fit this engine in a mini, so you would have to modify one.

i bought a second hand frame, suspended the engine and box above it , and worked out what i had to chop off to make it fit, and where to weld strengthening back in . all the while being mindfull that the whole lot has to fit into a mini engine bay......................its mostly trail and error............. a lot of trail and error...... then there is driveshafts to make up, alternator to squeeze in somewhere, make a cooling system , gearlinkage (i thought this was the hardest bit ) exhaust to hook up........................etc etc

Edited by batespeed, 31 October 2011 - 04:05 PM.

[E.L.M.O]

Im really gutted that the kid who wanted to put the 4.2 V8 Audi engine in the front of his mini didnt come back....

Is the OP of this topic still looking at this thread he started? Are you going to push ahead? keep up updated dude!

[M J W J]

dont listen to the doubters !

I will point out that I didn't say don't do it I said I wouldn't bother doing it. I did give some useful advice pointing him in the direction of you batespeed who has some more relevant experience with regards to this possible engine conversion. Also a tape measure is always a good starting point with any modification.

I still stand by my point that you will not find a good condition vts/gti 16v engine. It will have been thrashed.