18 replies to this topic

[corrado vr6]

Hi there I have a 1989 wiring loom in my 1989 mini with what I believe to be a ballast system due to the whit pink wire on the positive side of the coil. Now I'm have trouble starting from cold and it will take some cranking before it will start originally I had a 998cc engine but I now have a 1330cc engine but still using the coil from the 998 setup could this be my problem do I need to switch to non ballast due to bigger engine? However from my understanding the ballast setup is best for cold starting so should I stick with this setup. I'm happy to buy a non ballast coil and run the new ignition cable but really need people's advice as to what would be best.

I have already fitted when I rebuilt the engine
New spark plugs
New HT leads
New dizzy with all new internals inc condenser and points
New alternator and battery
It has been timed and runs well just not so good at starting when cold

[Cooperman]

Poor starting is more likely to be a mixture, timing or poor quality ignition lead issue.
The pink/white wire, also known as 'that effing pink wire', is well known for overheating, burning out and taking the front loom with it. I've had it a couple of times as a problem to sort out and it can be an expensive nightmare. Best thing is to cut that wire out, replace it with a new white wire from the ignition switch to the coil +ve and fit a good quality 12 volt coil. Then the loom is safe.

[bmcecosse]

Ballast is best ! And same coil is fine. Is it kicking against the starter? Maybe too advanced - retard it and see if it starts easily. If you need the advance for best running - then lop a bit off the bob-weight stop in the dizzy instead of running daft amount of static advance. And - check the vacuum advance is working as it should........

[charliedurrant]

Ballast is best !

Genuinely interested to know why?

[bmcecosse]

Because it gives better sparks when starting - that's the whole point of it.....

[Cooperman]

Never had any problems starting with the 12V coil, even on a 115 bhp rally engine with 11.2:1 CR. Coils were 12 v from 1959 until about 1986, then 12 v again from 1990 to 2001. The 9 v was only used for a short time and that effing pink wire has caused more than enough trouble. Took me 6 hours to fix the burnt out loom on each of two occassions. If they wanted a 9 v coil, why on earth didn't they just fit a 12 v to 9 v stepper resistor and use standard wire? More p*** poor Rover muddled design.

[sledgehammer]

Took my wire out - the wire did feel warm after a few min's running

I hate to think how warm it gets on a hot summer night when the lights are on , and the engine bay is hot

I wouldn't want to bend an old loom about (engine / panel change etc) with that wire in it

my wire seemed brittle and quite hard - not flexible like the rest

and yes I did think the ballast resistor near the rad was the ignition ballast -

- never occurred to me they put a resistive wire in a loom

[Ethel]

The wire has to get hot or it wouldn't be a resistor wire, if you have doubts about its condition measure the resistance. If you're prepared to spend a little money convert it to electronic ignition as it'll perform better than any points setup. There are several topics on the Britpart kit.

[dklawson]

Following the normal progression, this thread has morphed into an argument about ballast, non-ballast, and electronic ignitions. The OP's question started with an inquiry about whether he needed to change his coil since he now has a bigger engine.

Roy's answer appears to have been overlooked. He pointed out that there will be no difference between 998 ballast coil and a 1275 ballast coil so the existing ignition system should not be the cause of the starting problem. As mentioned it could be timing advance related or perhaps the mixture or choke adjustment is out a bit. The OP has certainly replaced just about everything else electrical that could be at fault.

The OP can convert to a non-ballast coil and modify the electrical wiring if they choose but that will not address the starting problem.

[dklawson]

A direct short of the ballast wire would prevent the coil from receiving any power at all and therefore the engine would not start at all. What the OP reported is that the car was becoming increasingly harder to start... not that it suddenly became impossible to start.

As I said before, he can convert the ignition type if he wants but the symptoms the OP listed in their posts are not consistent with coil/ballast problems. Let's focus on getting the engine back to being easy to start, then worry about the ignition type.

[Ivor Badger]

A direct short of the ballast wire would prevent the coil from receiving any power at all and therefore the engine would not start at all. What the OP reported is that the car was becoming increasingly harder to start... not that it suddenly became impossible to start.

As I said before, he can convert the ignition type if he wants but the symptoms the OP listed in their posts are not consistent with coil/ballast problems. Let's focus on getting the engine back to being easy to start, then worry about the ignition type.

No the engine would start from the 12v feed from the solenoid, that is the whole point off a ballast system, it just won't run after you release the starter solenoid. You use a 6 v coil and feed it 12v for the short time the starter is working, thus it gets an extra big spark even though the starter is dropping the voltage in the vehicle.

[lrostoke]

I'm have trouble starting from cold and it will take some cranking before it will start originally I had a 998cc engine but I now have a 1330cc engine but still using the coil from the 998.


It has been timed and runs well just not so good at starting when cold

People have been mentioning how the ballast system works but I don't think anybody as suggested it may actually be the ballast byepass that isn't working.
He's got cold starting problems, but it runs fine.
The purpose of the byepass is to aid starting.
When the engine was swapped was the white/yellow wire reconnected to the solenoid. ??And is it getting power when the engine is cranking.

Edited by lrostoke, 05 January 2012 - 06:07 PM.

[Ivor Badger]

You'll never convince doug Ivor, he just loooves the ballast system

Actually the minis ballast coil is 9 volts, so if your only getting 6 the wires already well on the way to meltdown..........

Never sais there was anything wrong with the system and the concept is great. Ford works Mk1/2 Escorts took the idea to the ultimate and fitted 2 12v batteries and fed 24v through the starter to get them to fire when hot.

Has one person who came in and continually complained about her mini not starting. The car broke down in a town served by a ferry and the AA man had to get the ferry across to fix it. He would get it started and leave, she would then try to start it and it wouldn't go, she was going there for weekend visiting friends.. After a few ferry trips, the AA man said "tell me when you are going home and I will escort you across on the ferry. She then brings the car in and I check everything, take it for a test and works fine. She then breaks down on the way home, so repeat the exercise. Noticed that the new points looked a bit fried so check further and the storry comes out. The mini stopped on the way out and this helpful guy stops and says I'll fix it. so I says, bet he had a Vauxhall. Why, how did you know? Because he has fitted a Delco Remy 6v ballast coil to your 12v system!

[dklawson]

No the engine would start from the 12v feed from the solenoid, that is the whole point off a ballast system, it just won't run after you release the starter solenoid. You use a 6 v coil and feed it 12v for the short time the starter is working, thus it gets an extra big spark even though the starter is dropping the voltage in the vehicle.

Nope. Sorry.

What I said is was what Dilligaf said... "a dead short of the white/pink wire"
If the white/pink wire has a short to earth and is connected to the coil (+) terminal, then when the starter is engaged (solenoid energized) the 12V supply along the white/yellow wire will ALSO go directly to earth. You cannot have it both ways.

On the other hand, if the white/pink wire burns "open" then you will have the scenario you describe where the engine will fire with the starter engaged but die as soon as the key is released. That's a well documented failure mode for ballast ignitions both with an external ballast resistor or the resistor wire.

I like Steve's point. If the white/pink was not re-connected to coil (+) it could simply be that the spark is now "cold" compared to what it was prior to the engine swap. It certainly is an easy and quick thing to check.

Dilligaf, it's not that I love the ballast ignition system. We've talked about this before. I simply hate seeing people throw money at fixing problems that are not there. As we have discussed before, if you really hate the pink wire... bypass it and fit an inline ballast resistor. The resistors cost less than a new coil and will allow you to retain the starting benefits of the ballast ignition system. In the end, it is your car. Do what you want. But don't blame a ballast ignition system for problems that it does not cause.

[charliedurrant]

Following the normal progression, this thread has morphed into an argument about ballast, non-ballast, and electronic ignition.