14 replies to this topic

[Duncy H]

Rightio,

I've just fitted the front adjustable tie bars and negative camber arms. Now i'd like to know a good way of roughly getting it right so i can drive it over to a place to get set up properly. Currently the tie bars are set to just above standard length, sorry i am rather puzzled with castor and toe so i wouldn't know where to go, I understand slight toe out at the front is good?

Also when i do have it set up what sort of geometry should i be asking for? It is for fast road use, spec atm is...

-Adjustable tie bars
-1.5 negative camber arms
-New bushes in these both
-Gaz adjustable shocks
-13x7 supalites (however i may later in the year be tempted by 10s)

I think thats it for what i have changed, the rest is standard.

Any help would be greatly appreciated yet again :)

[Duncy H]

Please anyone?

[Samini86]

i'm in the same situation mate

[racingbob]

so basically your caster you can leave for moment till set up

your camber will be fixed as you did not buy adjustable which you should have done in my opinion

your tracking will probably be way out toeing in

what i done with my FALCONS is measure the middle of the tyre across to other middle ( theres a groove around tyre )

i done this about 4" up from the ground, then done the same at the rear and adjust track arms til aprox both the same mearurement

so i know its about straight on, also played around with string round the car wheels. see how alighnment was pointing on each wheel

car drives good

[bmcecosse]

First VERY IMPORTANT point - have you fitted the longer track rod ends that are essential with neg camber arms??? If not - the thread length is dangerously low - get a set NOW.. The tie rods should be set to standard length - certainly not longer. Standard lengthy is fine - pulls the castor up nicely with the longer bottom arms.

[Cerberus]

First VERY IMPORTANT point - have you fitted the longer track rod ends that are essential with neg camber arms??? If not - the thread length is dangerously low - get a set NOW.. The tie rods should be set to standard length - certainly not longer. Standard lengthy is fine - pulls the castor up nicely with the longer bottom arms.

After fitting adjustable lower arms myself not too long ago, I'm not so sure on this point, nnless your running 2 degrees or more of neg camber.

How many flats/threads would you consider too few?

With 1.5 degree fixed arms there's going to be barely any negative camber at all on the wheels, so I can't really see the longer track rod ends being required.

[Duncy H]

So to get this straight, I should fix the tie bars to standard length, this will likely mean the wheels will toe in, I haven't adjusted the tracking at all on the track rod ends so should be equal on both sides. Will it be ok to run the car like this for today before I hopefully have it set up tomorrow?

I fitted new track rod ends to the car, I'm not sure wether they are longer but I bought them with the rest of the parts mentioned from a show so would have thought they'd be ok? However minispeed have been extremely crap so far

[racingbob]

you may not need longer track rod ends

for some reason i didnt realy need them on mine even with 2 deg camber

there was still half inch thread, but i changed them for the sake of 12 quid

[Duncy H]

Well when i changed mine i noticed there was for me a satisfying amount of thread contact between them. Just had another thought, surely won't the wheels toe out due to the steering rack effectively being the same length but yet longer bottom arms. So then to compensate the track rod ends need to be wound out and this is the reason why people think longer ones should be used. So for now roughly to get it running ok if i do equal adjustments to each track rod end on both sides, say a turn out on each one the wheels should start to toe in?

Sorry about going so in depth, i like to understand everything i am doing and not just do it cause uncle tomcobbly said so.

[jamiestevenbell]

sorry to hijack but im in the same position how many degrees of camber, what castor and toe i are best for fast road use and some trackdays its just a weekend car

[jamiestevenbell]

sorry to hijack but im in the same position how many degrees of camber, what castor and toe i are best for fast road use and some trackdays its just a weekend car

[racingbob]

yes sorry looks like it will toe OUT by giving more camber it sometimes confuses me

as dont do it all the time

with settings i would go for

one and half neg camber, 1/16 toe out, 4 caster

thats for 10 or 12 inch wheels

if doing track days you will need the back end done 1/16 toe in and half deg neg camber

if you dont do this for the track the back tends not to come round

maybe lower the car some, mine is, you will need adj shocks as well

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[bmcecosse]

I would be surprised if you still have 1/2" thread inside the tre - and in any case - I would consider 1/2" to be the absolute minimum for safety AFTER the tracking has been re-set - personally I like a good bit more. For all the longer tres cost - they are surely worth it for the extra peace of mind.

[jamiestevenbell]

yes i have spax adjustables and hilows so the car will be as low as practicable lol

[icklemini]

To be honest getting it setup with someone who knows minis will be worth it...

set the adjustable tie-rods to the standard length.. also set the bottom arm to the standard length.

then get it setup.

Longer track rod ends are recommended.

Road useage then 1.5 degs neg camber is the max I would set them up to on the front - and this would be for 10" wheels
12" wheels less, 13" less than 12"....

Camber is adjusted with the bottom arms.

Castor - vital that this is equal on both sides... more castor = more self centring of the steering, harder to turn, but more camber when you do turn in... I aim for around 5degs but this must be matched on each side, again the bigger the wheel the more castor seems to help.

once you have set your camber and castor - (note that adjusting camber with knock out your castor and vice versa), you then reset the tracking to a max of 1mm toe out on the front (assuming all new bushes)

at the rear, generally less camber than the front. and around 1mm toe in: now this *must* be measured on each wheel (0.5mm toe in on each rear wheel), very weird things can result if you cannot check the toe of the individual rear wheels when tightening the tolerances up on the rear toe..

Height wise, front you want to have a minimum of a fingers width between top arm and bump stop..... the back needs to be higher than the front.

Bits of string and such like is really basic and sadly often results in less than satisfactory results,,,, and, although it may sound I am drumming up business.,.. getting it setup *right* does make a world of difference and not expensive...