11 replies to this topic

[diogoteix]

Hello guys,

I'm using my Mini almost every day to drive my 3 kids school and get to work. It's a very short trip in town (about 5 km) and I hate to use my "big car".
I'm pondering to fit a roll cage because I also occasionaly use the car for track days, and since I'm a family cautious guy I would hate to end up in bad shape after a misunderstanding with my track mates...

As anyone tried to fit a 4 or 6 points roll cage while still using the back seats?
I was thinking about something like that (by the way I have the same seats):

[Bungle]

if your carrying children in the mini i wouldn't fit something as dangerous as a roll cage

fine if your just doing track days and you are strapped into a bucket seat wearing a harness with a crash helmet on your head

but think of your children wacking their heads on a steel tube

[redhotminilewis]

It can depend on what roll-cage you go for. Some roll-cages have an extra bar on the rear part going from top right to bottom left for extra rigidity in the cage, rendering the back seats useless. In addition, many people use harnesses with roll-cages because if you roll your car without harnesses then your head will just smash against the steel bar which could be worse. Even with harness's your head will still be a risk of hitting the bar without a helmet. And if you do put harnesses in, that will also render your back seat useless as the harness will have to mount where the rear passengers would sit.

But if your not using harnesses and plan to fit a cage without the extra rear bar, yes you can use the back seat, but it has the potential to do more harm than good.

[diogoteix]

Yeah... I know it's not perfect but I supose that if you go for the 4 point version of the cage above, then the kids hitting it is not so much of an issue as the tubes will be along the car pillar, right next to the front seats, a place quite difficult to hit with your head with a seat belt. And the roll cage can be padded with foam whereas the car pilar not!

As for the usage during track days, I use helmet (it's compulsory anyway) and intend to use an harness once I have the roll cage...
By the way do you know if it's possible to fit a removable "door bar" between the front and back pilar to give an extra protection on side impacts (for track days only)?

[Bungle]

if you fit a harness the rear seats become unusable

[jaydee]

I'm afraid the children will start playing with the roll bar..which is not safe at all..

[Dan]

It is incredibly dangerous to be in the back of a Mini with a rollcage. Or in the front, if you aren't properly harnessed and protected. I cannot believe you are even considering putting children back there.

[samsfern]

Perhaps a trailor for the little ones?

[cooperdan]

I find it quite comical that he is..

[diogoteix]

Maybe there is a misunderstanding, sorry for not being clear enough. I'm not looking for a full roll cage, or even a roll cage with any type of bars in the back seats area, otherwise the car would indeed become unusable (and dangerous) for everyday driving.
You've got this kind of serious and FIA homologated Mini rool cage (http://www.customcages.co.uk):
or
But what I'm thinking of is 4 point roll cage (again http://www.customcages.co.uk):
back -><- left side

Even on this 4 point roll cage, there is no tubing close to the rear seats/passengers, the welding is done by the pillars just in front and behind the doors, with horizontal bars by the ceiling behing font seat and windshield, and by the driver and front passenger windows (my seats are lower than standard so my head is about 30 cm below ceiling) . If somebody's head hits there it already has a serious problem: no belt at all and flying through the windshield, or the car rolling around... without roll bar/cage it would be in serious trouble. So there may be some hazard combination that I don't se but I can't figure out what increase in dangerousity this kind of roll bar adds, even when the car is driven only with a belt... As for the harness, a transversal removable harness bar can be fitted on track days between the 2 back roll cage pillars.

Edited by diogoteix, 06 April 2012 - 08:34 AM.

[Dan]

You can understand why people would be confused here, since that is not what is usually described as a 4 point cage in a Mini. I'd question if a cage without any rear diagonals would have much strength at all anyway but even with that design I personally wouldn't be putting anyone in the back. There are lots of real crash test videos on Youtube. Watch a few and see how far the dummies actually move in a sesatbelt that isn't pretensioned, even in a relatively light accident. The B pillar upright is not as far away as you think. Car manufacturers and governments around the world have spent decades getting all the steel out of car interiors for a reason. We crash a lot of cars at work, they each have a custom cage made for the specific stunt being performed and despite that and even though their face and head will be visible in shot I don't know any stuntman that would consider being inside one, in any seat, with full protective gear and a helmet. It's your family and your saftey invovled and you must do what you think is right but ultimately if you don't think the car is safe enough for them as it is, don't put them in it. Adding loads of steel around them might well protect them better in the 1 in 1000 event that is a really serious accident but could end up in them being very seriously inured in the much more likely everyday collision. It's either a race car or a road car, not both. You should also check with your insurer what they think. If you aren't with a specialist insurer it's most likely that you won't get cover for a roll cage. You can get insurance for one though if you do want one, you will probably need to use a modified or classic car specialist.

[diogoteix]

Thanks Dan for your answer. I think I may stay away from the cage as long as my kids keep asking for the Mini... As for track days, I will have to stay clear from crashes!