Just a quick question...
When did the twin tanks get fitted to cooper cars..Were there some cars 1967ish that didnt have twin tanks as standard? Were they a later addition?
Sorry if this is a silly question...
Twin Tank Coopers!
Started by
AndyMiniMad.
, Apr 30 2012 08:59 AM
24 replies to this topic
#1
AndyMiniMad.
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Posted 30 April 2012 - 08:59 AM
#2
Cooperman
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Posted 30 April 2012 - 09:19 AM
They were an option on the Cooper 'S' until early 1966 when they became standard. The Minis on the Monte CarloRally in 1966 didn't have twins as they were running in Group 1 and the twin tanks had not been homologated then. Lots of re-fuelling rallying a 1275 'S' with only a 5.5 gallon tank!
They were always an option on all other Minis, including the 998 Cooper.
They were always an option on all other Minis, including the 998 Cooper.
#3
AndyMiniMad.
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Posted 30 April 2012 - 09:31 AM
Thankyou Cooperman!!
#4
Ivor Badger
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Posted 30 April 2012 - 11:51 AM
The first mini fitted with twin tanks from the factory was one used by Motor/Autocar? and the report published in Sept/Oct? 59.
As Cooperman pointed out, they were always an option on the S from its release. The tipping point for fitting as standard was either late 66 or 67. The driving force for this was a production race in Australia where the car had to be in showroom spec. So the car got twin tanks, 4.5" wheels ans a laminated screen. Now it would appear that only Australian cars were built fully to this spec, but most UK cars seem to have the same spec. The variation seems to be that wide wheels are listed as an option as late as 71, but you never saw a new S without 4.5s. Have not got hold of my mate who had new Ss at that time yet. The fact 165/70 tyres would have had 4.5s as std would suggest 4.5s as std. So were 165/70s std from any date?
Australian cars were built in Australia with engine units shipped complete from the UK. So Australian spec could easily differ from UK.
As Cooperman pointed out, they were always an option on the S from its release. The tipping point for fitting as standard was either late 66 or 67. The driving force for this was a production race in Australia where the car had to be in showroom spec. So the car got twin tanks, 4.5" wheels ans a laminated screen. Now it would appear that only Australian cars were built fully to this spec, but most UK cars seem to have the same spec. The variation seems to be that wide wheels are listed as an option as late as 71, but you never saw a new S without 4.5s. Have not got hold of my mate who had new Ss at that time yet. The fact 165/70 tyres would have had 4.5s as std would suggest 4.5s as std. So were 165/70s std from any date?
Australian cars were built in Australia with engine units shipped complete from the UK. So Australian spec could easily differ from UK.
#5
CMXCVIII
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Posted 30 April 2012 - 12:00 PM
So were 165/70s std from any date?
70 profile road tyres basically didn't exist when the Cooper S was being manufacturered!
IIRC Dunlop's 'Groundhog' SP Sport 'graunchy grippers' only appeared in 13" and 10" sizes late in 1970.
#6
Cooperman
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Posted 30 April 2012 - 01:12 PM
I have certainly seen 'S's on standard 3.5" rims, but as said, the optional 4.5 was more normal.
The twin tanks were standard from late '65, but the required number for Group 1 homologation was not reached until about Feb '66.
I don't remember any Cooper 'S's with 165/70 x 10 as standard. I think they were all 145/80 x 10, but the 165 may have been an option from about 1968-ish.
With regard to tread pattern the SP41 was the first radial fitted as standard and this was from about April 1964. Later the SP Sport (aquajet pattern) was the norm. For tarmac rallying we used to use the Dunlop SP3, when they were available. Then Goodyear introduced the G800 which was similar to the SP3 in tread design. For rougher events we used the SP44 or Goodyear Ultra-Grip, both of which had a 'knobbly' pattern. Goodyear also introduced the 165/70 x 10 'Rally Special' which was a fantastic tarmac tyre.
Just remember, the first Cooper 'S', the 1071, has C41 cross-ply tyres as standard, but most people opted for a radial.
The early 1275 'S' was probably the fastest standard Mini ever as it had narrow wheels, no arch extensions, no wing mirrors, so the aerodynamic drag was low in relative terms. All the later add-ons like the wider wheels/tyres, wide arches, big door mirrors must have knocked lots of mph off the max speed and increased the fuel consumption a bit too.
The twin tanks were standard from late '65, but the required number for Group 1 homologation was not reached until about Feb '66.
I don't remember any Cooper 'S's with 165/70 x 10 as standard. I think they were all 145/80 x 10, but the 165 may have been an option from about 1968-ish.
With regard to tread pattern the SP41 was the first radial fitted as standard and this was from about April 1964. Later the SP Sport (aquajet pattern) was the norm. For tarmac rallying we used to use the Dunlop SP3, when they were available. Then Goodyear introduced the G800 which was similar to the SP3 in tread design. For rougher events we used the SP44 or Goodyear Ultra-Grip, both of which had a 'knobbly' pattern. Goodyear also introduced the 165/70 x 10 'Rally Special' which was a fantastic tarmac tyre.
Just remember, the first Cooper 'S', the 1071, has C41 cross-ply tyres as standard, but most people opted for a radial.
The early 1275 'S' was probably the fastest standard Mini ever as it had narrow wheels, no arch extensions, no wing mirrors, so the aerodynamic drag was low in relative terms. All the later add-ons like the wider wheels/tyres, wide arches, big door mirrors must have knocked lots of mph off the max speed and increased the fuel consumption a bit too.
#7
AndyMiniMad.
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Posted 30 April 2012 - 02:19 PM
#8
Ivor Badger
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Posted 30 April 2012 - 04:11 PM
The press prototype S, 731 HOP is listed as having C41s or SPs in the spec sheet. But the car is fitted with 4.5" wheels and the text of the test describes the grip from the SP tyres. Any press photos I have seen from 63, show SP3s fitted. The was an early Dunlop radial called Duraband which was listed as 5.50x10 and had the tread pattern of a Gold Seal. Radials were metriccally marked around 63 to make them simply distinguishable from crossplys for the general public.
Although the spec is listed as being SP41s from April 64,I think the press announcement was in March64. The SP41 had to have been fitted from late 63 as my car was delivered to the original owner with SP41s in the first week of Jan 64. Most early cars came with 3.5s as the way the order sheet was listed as the 4.5" only coming with R6s. So you had to take the racing tyres, which were not illegal for road use at that time. Ronnie MaCartney won the Circuit of Ireland in 64 and his car is shown on the rally with 3.5s.
there is the later SP68, a SP41 with one less but broader tread bands. The SP sport Aquajet iirc came out late 68.
Although the spec is listed as being SP41s from April 64,I think the press announcement was in March64. The SP41 had to have been fitted from late 63 as my car was delivered to the original owner with SP41s in the first week of Jan 64. Most early cars came with 3.5s as the way the order sheet was listed as the 4.5" only coming with R6s. So you had to take the racing tyres, which were not illegal for road use at that time. Ronnie MaCartney won the Circuit of Ireland in 64 and his car is shown on the rally with 3.5s.
there is the later SP68, a SP41 with one less but broader tread bands. The SP sport Aquajet iirc came out late 68.
#9
Cooperman
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Posted 30 April 2012 - 07:47 PM
I actually rallied on the Dunlop Duraband RB1 back in 1961 on an 850 Mini. It lasted well and general opinion was it was as good, or even slightly better than the Michelin 'X' radial. I had a set of Michelin 'X' on my first 850 in 1963, but my new 998 Cooper came on SP41's when delivered in 1964. They didn't last long!
Pirelli did the Cinturato in 145 x 10" size. In fact the old joke was that the 'SP' in Dunlop SP, stood for 'same as Pirelli.
Pirelli did the Cinturato in 145 x 10" size. In fact the old joke was that the 'SP' in Dunlop SP, stood for 'same as Pirelli.
#10
Ivor Badger
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Posted 30 April 2012 - 07:53 PM
Getting better grip than a Michelin isn't really that difficult. The only tyres I have ever removed from a vehicle before they wore out and on more than one occasion. Good trailer tyres.
SP41s, good ones might last 7000miles. Lots of grip that was soon gone, along with the tread.
SP41s, good ones might last 7000miles. Lots of grip that was soon gone, along with the tread.
#11
Cooperman
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Posted 30 April 2012 - 08:21 PM
Getting better grip than a Michelin isn't really that difficult. The only tyres I have ever removed from a vehicle before they wore out and on more than one occasion. Good trailer tyres.
SP41s, good ones might last 7000miles. Lots of grip that was soon gone, along with the tread.
I think mine lasted about 4000 miles, but I was young and 'enthusiastic' back then! Grip was excellent, especially in the wet. Agree about the Michelins; their sudden break away characterists did require rapid reactions to put it mildly.
Firestone produced a radial for the Mini in 1965. It was a 145 section and I did all the original testing. Had a few teeething problems with tread separation, but they were very good once developed. I was rallying with a guy in a Cortina at the time and we had a Firestone contract - hence my involvement.
#12
Ivor Badger
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Posted 30 April 2012 - 09:58 PM
The best that could be said for the Firestones were they were better than Michelins, but thats like saying you would rather have the clap than aids. That covers both the F100 and the C200. Might have worked on a Formula Ford, but not a mini.
#13
jaydee
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Posted 30 April 2012 - 10:31 PM
The reason I asked....Thought I might have a wee bid!!!
http://www.ebay.co.u...=item46034c0604
Nooo you're getting another one!!
#14
AndyMiniMad.
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Posted 01 May 2012 - 06:34 AM
Errr... no...The wife found out I was looking...Now im hungry and walking with a limp!!
#15
Cooperman
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Posted 01 May 2012 - 10:59 AM
Errr... no...The wife found out I was looking...Now im hungry and walking with a limp!!
!
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