we seem to have more paint knowledge on here these days, so i have a few questions
if im using 2 pack, do i need to mix it with anything or do i spray it straight on, also does the same apply to cello, if you do need to mix it what do you mix it with and in what quntaties.
i know i need breathing gear when spraying will a mouth mask work or will i need something else, if so what..
i dont have a spray booth, so ill need to spray outside, or in the gazebo, what pressure do i set the compressor at, not that i have one, and what spray pattern is best to use.
what are the downside to all this,
mixing paint
Started by
cowboy
, Mar 05 2006 10:05 PM
9 replies to this topic
#2
cooper_shaz
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Posted 06 March 2006 - 08:33 AM
2 pack, you will need to mix with an accelerator/hardner and possibly thinners to get the correct consistincey
Normal face mask will not do, this stuff should be used with breathing aparatus and a protective suit even if your out doors
Cellulose, a good mask with filters built in will do if your out doors, again mix with thinners, best to use anti-bloom thinners for this one as it will allow you to spray in lower temps without the paint going milky as it dries. (Your looking for a nice dry warm day, low humidity)
The temprature around you wil affect the paints viscosity (thickness) colder temps and the paint will require more thinners as it will be thicker.
When you mix the paint you want it to run of the end of the mixing stick in a continous stream.
Spray pressure, depends on the gun your using, suction, gravity but around 60 psi gravity take less.
Spray pattern, use a spare panel, old bonnet or something and practice on this, keep adjusting until you get a pattern you are happy with, this one is down to what suits you.
Downsides to this are 2 pack, can give you breathing difficulties without the correct clothing (absorbed through skin and breathing equipment), plus point, drying process is a chemical reaction, will not sink into the body filler, plus with 2 pack you will be blowing Cyanide into the air and this could get you into trouble with the law.
Cellulose air dries, the solvents can take weeks to evapopurate fully, it can sink into the bodyfiller leaving pits, It needs to be polished more often and is not as hard wearing as 2pack by comparison, but given that the panels will most likely rust again in about 5 - 7 years it will do the job, but you can get an awsome shine from cellulose and without the correct equipment breathing equip this is what i would reccomend.
A bit of advice, dont buy paint until you have your prepwork perfect, this will stop you being tempted into just thinking "i'll spray it and it will be fine' or ' i'll fix that bit later'
3 hours will paint a car, it takes weeks to prep it well...
Normal face mask will not do, this stuff should be used with breathing aparatus and a protective suit even if your out doors
Cellulose, a good mask with filters built in will do if your out doors, again mix with thinners, best to use anti-bloom thinners for this one as it will allow you to spray in lower temps without the paint going milky as it dries. (Your looking for a nice dry warm day, low humidity)
The temprature around you wil affect the paints viscosity (thickness) colder temps and the paint will require more thinners as it will be thicker.
When you mix the paint you want it to run of the end of the mixing stick in a continous stream.
Spray pressure, depends on the gun your using, suction, gravity but around 60 psi gravity take less.
Spray pattern, use a spare panel, old bonnet or something and practice on this, keep adjusting until you get a pattern you are happy with, this one is down to what suits you.
Downsides to this are 2 pack, can give you breathing difficulties without the correct clothing (absorbed through skin and breathing equipment), plus point, drying process is a chemical reaction, will not sink into the body filler, plus with 2 pack you will be blowing Cyanide into the air and this could get you into trouble with the law.
Cellulose air dries, the solvents can take weeks to evapopurate fully, it can sink into the bodyfiller leaving pits, It needs to be polished more often and is not as hard wearing as 2pack by comparison, but given that the panels will most likely rust again in about 5 - 7 years it will do the job, but you can get an awsome shine from cellulose and without the correct equipment breathing equip this is what i would reccomend.
A bit of advice, dont buy paint until you have your prepwork perfect, this will stop you being tempted into just thinking "i'll spray it and it will be fine' or ' i'll fix that bit later'
3 hours will paint a car, it takes weeks to prep it well...
#3
Paintman
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Posted 06 March 2006 - 05:16 PM
2 pack, you will need to mix with an accelerator/hardner and possibly thinners to get the correct consistincey
Normal face mask will not do, this stuff should be used with breathing aparatus and a protective suit even if your out doors
Cellulose, a good mask with filters built in will do if your out doors, again mix with thinners, best to use anti-bloom thinners for this one as it will allow you to spray in lower temps without the paint going milky as it dries. (Your looking for a nice dry warm day, low humidity)
The temprature around you wil affect the paints viscosity (thickness) colder temps and the paint will require more thinners as it will be thicker.
When you mix the paint you want it to run of the end of the mixing stick in a continous stream.
Spray pressure, depends on the gun your using, suction, gravity but around 60 psi gravity take less.
Spray pattern, use a spare panel, old bonnet or something and practice on this, keep adjusting until you get a pattern you are happy with, this one is down to what suits you.
Downsides to this are 2 pack, can give you breathing difficulties without the correct clothing (absorbed through skin and breathing equipment), plus point, drying process is a chemical reaction, will not sink into the body filler, plus with 2 pack you will be blowing Cyanide into the air and this could get you into trouble with the law.
Cellulose air dries, the solvents can take weeks to evapopurate fully, it can sink into the bodyfiller leaving pits, It needs to be polished more often and is not as hard wearing as 2pack by comparison, but given that the panels will most likely rust again in about 5 - 7 years it will do the job, but you can get an awsome shine from cellulose and without the correct equipment breathing equip this is what i would reccomend.
A bit of advice, dont buy paint until you have your prepwork perfect, this will stop you being tempted into just thinking "i'll spray it and it will be fine' or ' i'll fix that bit later'
3 hours will paint a car, it takes weeks to prep it well...
Couldn't have said it better myself.
#4
Baldspeed Racing
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Posted 07 March 2006 - 01:07 PM
This has filled me a bit more as well, cheers guys. 
#5
cowboy
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Posted 07 March 2006 - 06:49 PM
thanks for that, but i think i need more info
if im using 1 litre of cello paint how much thinners do i put in it,
do i use thinners for the primer.
can i paint cello, straight on top of a baught can of primer, say from halfords.
i need to get the car ready while its still being used
if im using 1 litre of cello paint how much thinners do i put in it,
do i use thinners for the primer.
can i paint cello, straight on top of a baught can of primer, say from halfords.
i need to get the car ready while its still being used
#6
syholl
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Posted 08 March 2006 - 07:20 AM
If you are using cellulose, you should be mixing it anywhere from 50% paint, 50% thinners, up to 30% paint, 70% thinners.
It takes a bit of getting used to, but you get to recognise when the paint is the right consistency. It should run off the stirring stick in a constant stream.... The colder it is in the spray booth, the thinner you need it to be....
Spray primer should be ok, but test it on something first, as cellulose contains thinners (obviously!!!) which eats certain paints. I have had problems recently with cellulose eating Simoniz stone guard. Had to use a layer of bar coat in between...
Oh, and use anti bloom thinners as well. If you do a search on here, Paintman has covered most of these matters in depth....
It takes a bit of getting used to, but you get to recognise when the paint is the right consistency. It should run off the stirring stick in a constant stream.... The colder it is in the spray booth, the thinner you need it to be....
Spray primer should be ok, but test it on something first, as cellulose contains thinners (obviously!!!) which eats certain paints. I have had problems recently with cellulose eating Simoniz stone guard. Had to use a layer of bar coat in between...
Oh, and use anti bloom thinners as well. If you do a search on here, Paintman has covered most of these matters in depth....
#7
superted87
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Posted 08 March 2006 - 08:44 PM
hi guys
i did a lot of work with an aspestos removal group within the forces and i thus have a very good quality air fed mask . the filters are marked up as being war department spec for all hazardous chemicals. i assume this would be the business for spraying 2k . if not then why/ what would???
also on a similar vein we wore Nuclear Biological and Chemical suits . these are charcoal filters in a convenient and trendy suit . they stop u getting anthrax poisoning and are similar outer fabric to the light weight overalls the paint guys wear. would one of these be suitable for spraying 2k ???? just to add they are sealed units when u got em on and are hooded with rubber cuffs , ankle cuffs.
also how prevelant is the threat of cyaniding your neighbours. they make a lot of noise you know and if i can do two birds with one stone. (no im joking !!) seriously is this a real concern for your backyard painter??
cheers guys
i did a lot of work with an aspestos removal group within the forces and i thus have a very good quality air fed mask . the filters are marked up as being war department spec for all hazardous chemicals. i assume this would be the business for spraying 2k . if not then why/ what would???
also on a similar vein we wore Nuclear Biological and Chemical suits . these are charcoal filters in a convenient and trendy suit . they stop u getting anthrax poisoning and are similar outer fabric to the light weight overalls the paint guys wear. would one of these be suitable for spraying 2k ???? just to add they are sealed units when u got em on and are hooded with rubber cuffs , ankle cuffs.
also how prevelant is the threat of cyaniding your neighbours. they make a lot of noise you know and if i can do two birds with one stone. (no im joking !!) seriously is this a real concern for your backyard painter??
cheers guys
#8
cowboy
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Posted 08 March 2006 - 09:14 PM
[quote name='syholl' date='Mar 8 2006, 07:20 AM' post='252009']
If you are using cellulose, you should be mixing it anywhere from 50% paint, 50% thinners, up to 30% paint, 70% thinners.
what would make the paint not dry propperlly, and what would happen if i put laquer on i afterwards
If you are using cellulose, you should be mixing it anywhere from 50% paint, 50% thinners, up to 30% paint, 70% thinners.
what would make the paint not dry propperlly, and what would happen if i put laquer on i afterwards
#9
syholl
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Posted 09 March 2006 - 07:10 AM
The paint will always dry eventually, as the thinners evaporates. The more you thinners in your paint, the longer it takes to dry. Go to thin though, and it will run very easily. You can lacquer over cellulose if you like, i have never tried tis out, so maybe check with paintman on this one....
#10
cooper_shaz
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Posted 09 March 2006 - 12:13 PM
Cellulose would always dry, in cold conditions it would take longer.
Yes cellulose can be laquered, no problems there.
As for the Chemical suit, yes you could spray with that, but it is a bit of overkill in that with a simple disposable suit it is easy to move around in, I cant imagine the MOD issue suit being too comfortable.
If you use the 2 pack with out hardener/accelerator thats where the drying issues happen as it is a chemical process that set 2k.
Cellulose has thinners in it anyway when it is mixed so even if you managed to spray it without adding thinners (it probably would not spray, more splatter) it would stil dry.
The whole point of the thinners is to get the correct consistency/viscosity of the paint.
You want it thicker than water, as mentioned above when you mix the paint and lift the mixing stick up, you want the paint to flow in a continous stream of the end of the stick. It is really something you have to try yourself. Make a mental note of how it flowed and try to spray it, then thin/thicken it and try again.
It is really a case of try it and you will soon recognise what the paint should look like.
stick an open can of paint in a basin of water so the paint warms up (dont put water in the can) and then mix it and lift up the mixing stick you will see the consistency change it will run quicker.
This is why when mixing paint there is no definitave mixing proportion for outdoor spraying as the ambient temprature plays a major part in it.
hope this helps
Shaz
Yes cellulose can be laquered, no problems there.
As for the Chemical suit, yes you could spray with that, but it is a bit of overkill in that with a simple disposable suit it is easy to move around in, I cant imagine the MOD issue suit being too comfortable.
If you use the 2 pack with out hardener/accelerator thats where the drying issues happen as it is a chemical process that set 2k.
Cellulose has thinners in it anyway when it is mixed so even if you managed to spray it without adding thinners (it probably would not spray, more splatter) it would stil dry.
The whole point of the thinners is to get the correct consistency/viscosity of the paint.
You want it thicker than water, as mentioned above when you mix the paint and lift the mixing stick up, you want the paint to flow in a continous stream of the end of the stick. It is really something you have to try yourself. Make a mental note of how it flowed and try to spray it, then thin/thicken it and try again.
It is really a case of try it and you will soon recognise what the paint should look like.
stick an open can of paint in a basin of water so the paint warms up (dont put water in the can) and then mix it and lift up the mixing stick you will see the consistency change it will run quicker.
This is why when mixing paint there is no definitave mixing proportion for outdoor spraying as the ambient temprature plays a major part in it.
hope this helps
Shaz
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