14 replies to this topic

[AlexMozza]

I have just got my mini back on all four wheels to find that I have negative camber on the fronts.
I thought perhaps it was the ball joints not tight, So I have checked the nuts for tightness, put some more grease in with a grease gun.

When at give the wheel verticle movement i can lift the hub a few mm, even though everything is tight, I was thinking perhaps the wheel bearing but there is no sideways movement.
Could it be that the ball joint nuts are tight, but not to torque spec?


Its a 998 1984 with Disks at the front.

Any help much appreciated!

[Ethel]

Where are you looking? The bottom BJ's are spring loaded so will show some movement between the hub & lower arm. If it was the bearings any movement ought to be visible between the disc & caliper.

[AlexMozza]

I'm looking between the lower arm and the top of the ball joint ball, not the nut.

[tiger99]

Your ball joints are dangerously worn,and must be replaced, if you can see much visible movement. There should be no discernible movement when lifting the wheel, actually 1 or 2 thou with the ball joint disconnected is quite ok, but you will not see that small amount on the car.

You should not be able to move the lower joint by a visible amount against the spring. The function of the spring is only to prevent rattling, because there is no real vertical load on the lower arm, and it is not there to take up clearance, which is set by the shimming.

Be very careful when replacing and shimming the joints. Follow the procedure in the Rover manual carefully. When shimmed and torqued up correctly, they MUST NOT be tight. Err on the side of a thou or two of free play. Tight, and a serious accident is likely when they break, after a short period of use.

Try to obtain genuine ball joints, there is a lot of nasty, dangerous Chinese junk on the market.

[Ethel]

It could just be badly shimmed. The hub can't transfer any of the car's weight onto the lower arm, that's why it's possible to use a spring to keep the ball pressed into the socket and minimise lateral play.

[AlexMozza]

The Ball joints are brand new, however, I have a feeling when they were installed, They were not shimmed up correctly.
Thinking about it, that make perfect sense!
I take it ball joint kits come with the shims?

[tiger99]

It still has to be shimmed to have the normal very small clearance regardless of the spring, which is not even strong enough to rotate the lower arm against the elastic torque of its bushes. The lateral location requires that the joint is tight mechanically without the spring.

Oh, and yes, they clearly have not been shimmed correctly. There are some shims in the kit, but you usually have to get more, or save the shims from the old joint (never chuck out stuff like that, they will be useful one day).

Whoever installed them was irresponsible and negligent to the point of criminality. If it was a garage, you have a very legitimate complaint, and in view of the danger involved, you should take it up with Trading Standards.

Edited by tiger99, 06 October 2012 - 05:41 PM.

[AlexMozza]

When shimming them, Is it the case that you put all the shims that they come with in, put it together, If its to stiff remove a shim then repeat?

[Ethel]

Pretty much, you can get started by assembling it without shims and using feeler blades (or the shims) to measure the gap when the balls just start to bind.

Sure you meant add a shim if they're stiff.

[M J W J]

You need to grind the balls on the end of the pins in properly so that they seat correctly. If not they will wear and become loose quite quickly.

The link below explains very clearly how to do it.

[AlexMozza]

Where can I get extra shims from, as with the supplied number of shims, once torqued up to 70ftlbs the ball joint is solid.

[richw911]

Where can I get extra shims from, as with the supplied number of shims, once torqued up to 70ftlbs the ball joint is solid.

http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/Suspension/Front/Hydro/2A4242.aspx?190202&ReturnUrl=/search/classic/shims.aspx|Back%20to%20search

[bmcecosse]

I've never known it to need more shims than come with the kit.......

[AlexMozza]

Well I have rebuilt the front hubs, following the video and they are now perfect!
I had to however get one extra shim on each ball joint, then up to 75ftlb.

Thanks!

[AlexMozza]

I have now rebuilt both hubs, done the tracking and now I'm just wandering how you set the camber on the front wheels.
They look about right, but I want to check anyway.

Thanks