22 replies to this topic

[OllieTheWelder]

Hi, I've always dreamed of joining the RAF and I was in the air cadets for 3 years. Now it's becoming time that I need to seriously start thinking about it, the role I am interested in is being an Aeronautical Engineer as I have a keen interest in engineering and planes. I turned 17 in October and started my a-levels (maths, physics, computing and economics) however Im finding maths and physics especially hard, (I got a B in both at gcse), i took further education as I wanted to be an officer, but I'm finding it's not for me and I'd love to join up asap. Is there anyone on here that has RAF experience and could tell me what it's like? Is the pay as good as they say it is when first joining at 17k? Does it take long to climb the ranks? How likely am I to be based abroad? Are there many courses to become a qualified engineer? How hard is it to find a civilian job after a military career? Would you recommend it? What advice could you give me about joining up?

Thanks, Ollie.

[thorpey182]

I'm an aircraft mechanical engineer, been in for 8 years. Training is split into 4 main parts - basic, mechanics, on the job training, then the final technician course. It can take a while for techies to climb the ranks purely because of the length of training and there are 2 extra ranks to get through. A lot of people who have recently left have gone into the oil & gas fields, or renewable energies. Pay isn't bad really, and as for abroad it depends on where you get sent to in the UK. I personally haven't been anywhere, but a guy who I joined up with has done 500 days+. Drop us a PM if you want any more info mate, although one thing I will say that if you can go for Officer, do it it. It's worth it in the long run,

Edited by thorpey182, 06 November 2012 - 09:44 PM.

[sonikk4]

I'm ex RAF and when i joined in 1980 it was very good. Plenty of good postings throughout the world and very at the time career orientated.

I left in 93 and it was bloody hard. Yes i had qualifications but the aviation market at the time had flat lined. I worked as a HGV1 driver to supplement us in between working as a contract fitter.

Eventually i did get full time employent and now i am a unrestricted B1 certifying Engineer working for Virgin.

Over the years the RAF has gone into decline with main line stations closing left right and centre due to government cutbacks. Certainly not as much choice especially abroad.
Pay wise, yes its ok, you can go online and see the pay scales but when you compare them to Civil aviation they are poor. A lot of the lads still in are very dis enchanted with it all as they don't know if another tranch of cutbacks will force them out.
Then there is all of the conflicts that the MOD like to get involved with. If you are posted to a front line sqn then you will spend a lot of time in places like afghanistan etc and on a regular basis.

Now on a more positive side the RAF is starting to qualify the engineers with Civil licences as they use A330's. This is a good thing especially if you decide to leave and get into Civil aviation as without a licence then you will only get work as a fitter which although is not bad pay it is no where as good as licenced engineer with multiple type ratings.

Now is it worth it, good question. Its not a bad thing to do as they will teach you airmanship and responsibility plus then there is the engineering qualifications as well.
You can and will have fun but in the current economic climate its not as good. If you are posted on helicopters for an example you will spend a lot of time out of country and in not very nice places. I did just that and if you are in a relationship it can be very hard.

Now this may sound like i'm poo pooing the idea, far from it. This is just to give you an idea of what could be but until you try it you won't know. we currently have some lads who are still in the RAF who are getting experience with us working on the A330 and A340 for the Air tankers the RAF are using. A lot of them like it and are glad they joined up but also they now see what its like in civvie world and its an eye opener.

Pay scales but not sure how up to date they are
http://www.armedforc...afpayscales.htm

[OllieTheWelder]

I'm an aircraft mechanical engineer, been in for 8 years. Training is split into 4 main parts - basic, mechanics, on the job training, then the final technician course. It can take a while for techies to climb the ranks purely because of the length of training and there are 2 extra ranks to get through. A lot of people who have recently left have gone into the oil & gas fields, or renewable energies. Pay isn't bad really, and as for abroad it depends on where you get sent to in the UK. I personally haven't been anywhere, but a guy who I joined up with has done 500 days+. Drop us a PM if you want any more info mate, although one thing I will say that if you can go for Officer, do it it. It's worth it in the long run,

Thanks for that, I'm not to bothered about pay, but obviously it helps. My dad said join the Navy if I want to travel but I'm more interested in the RAF. Also It's interesting that they went on to do renewable energy and oil as I was also considering this.

I'm ex RAF and when i joined in 1980 it was very good. Plenty of good postings throughout the world and very at the time career orientated.

I left in 93 and it was bloody hard. Yes i had qualifications but the aviation market at the time had flat lined. I worked as a HGV1 driver to supplement us in between working as a contract fitter.

Eventually i did get full time employent and now i am a unrestricted B1 certifying Engineer working for Virgin.

Over the years the RAF has gone into decline with main line stations closing left right and centre due to government cutbacks. Certainly not as much choice especially abroad.
Pay wise, yes its ok, you can go online and see the pay scales but when you compare them to Civil aviation they are poor. A lot of the lads still in are very dis enchanted with it all as they don't know if another tranch of cutbacks will force them out.
Then there is all of the conflicts that the MOD like to get involved with. If you are posted to a front line sqn then you will spend a lot of time in places like afghanistan etc and on a regular basis.

Now on a more positive side the RAF is starting to qualify the engineers with Civil licences as they use A330's. This is a good thing especially if you decide to leave and get into Civil aviation as without a licence then you will only get work as a fitter which although is not bad pay it is no where as good as licenced engineer with multiple type ratings.

Now is it worth it, good question. Its not a bad thing to do as they will teach you airmanship and responsibility plus then there is the engineering qualifications as well.
You can and will have fun but in the current economic climate its not as good. If you are posted on helicopters for an example you will spend a lot of time out of country and in not very nice places. I did just that and if you are in a relationship it can be very hard.

Now this may sound like i'm poo pooing the idea, far from it. This is just to give you an idea of what could be but until you try it you won't know. we currently have some lads who are still in the RAF who are getting experience with us working on the A330 and A340 for the Air tankers the RAF are using. A lot of them like it and are glad they joined up but also they now see what its like in civvie world and its an eye opener.

Pay scales but not sure how up to date they are
http://www.armedforc...afpayscales.htm

I understand what you mean with all the cut backs, I thought it would be a reliable job but perhaps not? I'm interested by different cultures so I was thinking I might actually like going to somewhere like afghanistan, it's fairly safe being an engineer over there isn't it? Thanks, for taking the time to offer your opinion. I'm going to call up the careers office tomorrow and arrange an appointment.

Ollie.

[sonikk4]

Good luck with it, its not a bad life but it has changed considerably since i left but i have mates that are still in although they are soon to leave. Old gits you see

[thorpey182]

It has changed a heck of a lot in the relatively short time I've been in. Yes the Navy for travel...but you'll spend days at sea and then only get to see a few ports now and again. As for cutbacks, you should be pretty safe. It's only Cpl's and above that have been in the firing line so far, and a lot of those actually volunteered for it. Good luck for whatever decision you make!

[sonikk4]

Just to give you a comparrison ith regards to wages

My current salary and shift pay equates to level 4 squadron leader or very close to it.(Been doing this job for over thirty two years now so been around a bit)
Technicians / fitters with experience, pay equates to Sergeant level 1 to level 4. Both of these are the Higher spine.

This does vary from company to company and experience and qualifications do make a vast difference.

When i left the mob i was a married Junior Tech on £16k. So you can see what the potential difference is. My son is in his second year as an apprentice with Virgin and currently on just over £14k. When he finishes in September 2014 if there is a position for him he will be on approx £28k including shift pay. Rising to £32k including shift within 18 months.

Food for thought???

[OllieTheWelder]

Just to give you a comparrison ith regards to wages

My current salary and shift pay equates to level 4 squadron leader or very close to it.(Been doing this job for over thirty two years now so been around a bit)
Technicians / fitters with experience, pay equates to Sergeant level 1 to level 4. Both of these are the Higher spine.

This does vary from company to company and experience and qualifications do make a vast difference.

When i left the mob i was a married Junior Tech on £16k. So you can see what the potential difference is. My son is in his second year as an apprentice with Virgin and currently on just over £14k. When he finishes in September 2014 if there is a position for him he will be on approx £28k including shift pay. Rising to £32k including shift within 18 months.

Food for thought???

That is interesting, I thought apprenticeships where virtually impossible to get into though. Could I ask what qualifications he had when he joined so I can relate?

Ollie.

[sonikk4]

Ollie he had 10 Gcse's and i think 4 A levels. Most of them were B or above with a couple of C's for good measure.

Virgin want a minimum of 4 GCSE's Maths, English, Science and something like resistive materials grade C and above but the more the merrier. They also like to see what you have made / built etc so Scott used Project Erm as his case.

Don't get me wrong they are not easy and have a huge amount of interest every year. British Airways were recruiting heavily for Apprentices and i believe they still are. Monarch are another company that recruits apprentices as well.

[OllieTheWelder]

Ollie he had 10 Gcse's and i think 4 A levels. Most of them were B or above with a couple of C's for good measure.

Virgin want a minimum of 4 GCSE's Maths, English, Science and something like resistive materials grade C and above but the more the merrier. They also like to see what you have made / built etc so Scott used Project Erm as his case.

Don't get me wrong they are not easy and have a huge amount of interest every year. British Airways were recruiting heavily for Apprentices and i believe they still are. Monarch are another company that recruits apprentices as well.

Thanks for your help, I"ll have a look into both of those companies tomorrow.

Ollie.

[Cooperman]

I worked in aviation most of my working life including doing a lot of recruitment of ex-RAF personnel.
RAF training is second-to-none, but these days you need to train as an engineer, which means getting a degree in an engineering discipline and that tends to mean gaining a commission. As above, technicians can struggle when they become civvies again.
One area which is good is radar and communications as those technicians can work in civil radar and I used to place a lot of those guys in ATC radar jobs as installation, commissioning and support roles.
Why not stay on to 18, get some good A-levels and apply to be an R.A.F. officer with support and training to engineering degree level.
For a civil apprenticeship, Marshalls Aerospace in Cambridge are excellent and do some good apprenticeships.

Edited by Cooperman, 06 November 2012 - 11:12 PM.

[sonikk4]

I'm with Cooperman here, get your A levels then think about the officer thing. However you will need to check for the minimum qualification criteria as from an engineering point of view the engineering officers i knew in my career were all degree grad students apart from one. He however started his career in the Army and then transferred over.

Marshalls apprenticeship is not bad, i was there for 10 years and they produced quite a few good ones and the instructors were very good. They knocked down the old training facility outside the main gate Cooperman and built / converted one of the office blocks across the road. Much better and a larger workshop to boot.

The one thing i will say about Marshalls is they no longer do large Civil aircraft. They are concentrating more on the MOD stuff with Hercules and Tristar.

There is a hangar that works on corporate aircraft which is not a bad place to work in and a good bunch of lads.

[Cooperman]

I worked as a sub-contract design engineer at Marshalls from 1966 to 1971 and the work was interesting and very challenging, especially doing the variable-geometry nose for Concorde and the Met-Hercules sonde ejection system.
The Marshalls apprenticeship was also very good and I subsequently had some ex-Marshalls apprentices work for me when I had my own design company.
It always seemed that ex-RAF guys were well trained and very reliable in terms of both ability and attitude to work. Very adaptable too which is what one might expect from ex-serviceman. Ex-Royal Navy chaps were even more self-reliant as they were used to being on a ship and not being able to call on an external spares or tech support sections.
Apprenticeships seem to be on the way back and that is really good news for young people. The high cost of being a student is certainly putting a lot of young people off going for a degree. In fact, if one can get a good apprenticeship with an HNC at the end of it, then it's not too difficult to convert this to a good degree with the Open University and still end up with an MEng by the age of 24 or so.

[Black.Ghost]

Im in the army and in Afghanistan now (got here last Saturday, 6 months to go!). I can't really provide much advice on the aviation side of things, but as for the forces in many ways it is a great career. You will meet so many new friends from all walks of life, people that you might think you would not normally be friends with. You will get to do adventure training and things at heavily discounted rates.

The RAF and Navy tend to get treated somewhat better than the army and not messed around as much, but you still have to remember once you sign up, your life is no longer your own so to speak. It puts a strain on relationships, and you have to work when you are told, no questions etc. Armed forces helps to introduce discipline etc. There is also the benefit of free gym membership (o camp!) the whole time, although the RAF are not known for extreme fitness levels (sorry, sly dig haha).

With reference to your comment about liking different cultures and therefore liking Afghanistan, I wouldn't worry about that. By the time you are done we will be out of here in a combat role and well on the way to drawing down. The kind of area you are looking at would not really put you in much regular contact with the local population of Afghanistan anyway. There are many local workers on the big camps, but the majority don't speak English and you have little if any interaction with them.

The armed forces is a good career overall and I am glad I joined up when I did. Go along to the local recruiting office and see what information they can give you. Just be aware they will obviously be biased. But like said above, don't leave school just yet - finish your a levels first. You are still young and any service you do before the age of 18 doesn't even count towards your career years anyway. I would also suggest you are very unlikely to be accepted as an officer at 17 with no a-levels. Without sounding patronising, there will be many grad students going for the same places and with more life experience than you. The armed forces are not expanding in size any time soon so I would imagine they could be somewhat more selective with the more specialised roles that will have many applicants.

Personally, if my eyesight wasn't rubbish, I would have gone for heli pilot. I'd absolutely love to be an Apache pilot out here. Or Fast Air. Not a bad job if you can get it.

[Cooperman]

Black.Tulip is in Afghanistan. Big respect from all of us then