22 replies to this topic

[Marc_mcq]

Hi guys and girls,

Having had several nightmares trying to colour match rattle cans, I am going to take the proverbial bull by the horns and attempt a full respray myself.

I have spent the majority of my saturday night on TMF researching what equipment I require, the different types of paint and the issues with each. I have found that different people have different opinions on everything!

I have decided to go with cellulose paint. Although the finish isn't as hard or resistant to fading as 2k but I don't fancy my chances painting in a pretty small garage with no air fed mask (another point people seem to argue about...)

Am I right in thinking that I would mix cellulose colour with cellulose thinners 50/50?

Regarding the paint that is already on the car, I have had a couple of reactions with the cellulose rattle cans and existing paint. So my plan is...

Give the whole car a rub down with 800 grit wet and dry
panel wipe and tack cloth
coat of white primer
Identify any reactions
cut back and bar coat
coat of white primer on affected areas
rub down car with 800 wet and dry
3 coats of 50/50 cellulose/thinners
sit back and admire my work

Here is the compressor I currently have:

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/tiger

And the gun that I propose to use:

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/pgf14-gravity-fed-pro-spray-gun

The most painting I will be doing in one go will be front and side. Then back and other side, then all removables (boot, bonnet and doors) seperately.

Does my method sound OK?

And more importantly, will the equipment be suffice/ good enough?


Sorry for the massive essay, but I just want to clear it up!

Thanks,

Marc.

[Old Bob]

I fear you will struggle with that compressor. Seems to me that painting is all about having sufficient air and a 25 litre tank like that will restrict you to a few seconds of painting in between the compressor motor cutting in again through low pressure.

I am doing my own project at the moment and a 50 litre tank and a LVLP gun are barely adequate.

But you are right - everyone has their own ideas!

Bobn

[Marc_mcq]

Can you not paint whilst the compressor is running?

I understand that I would need a moisture trap as well.

If I was to get a larger compressor, does it matter if it is oil free or not?

[AVV IT]

In reality you're talking about spraying celly yourself in your garage here and looking for results that are an improvement over what you get with rattle cans. So you're probably not expecting to get the kind of finish that you would pay thousands for in a pro body shop. A 25 litre compressor isn't ideal, you will have dips in pressure whenever the compressor kicks in, but it will do the job and its perfectly possible to get reasonable DIY results using that sort of equipment.

I've resprayed a mini a panel at a time, using a £15 spray gun and a 6 litre hobby compressor designed to power a nail gun. It wasn't ideal and the compressor was running constantly, and whilst I wouldn't recommend using such a small compressor the result was reasonable enough. If you're planning on taking up respraying as a hobby, then maybe it would be worth investing in a bigger compressor, but if you're just "having a go", then I'd say stick with what you've got.

If you've not used a spray gun before, then I'd recommend getting an old door, or bonnet from a scrap yard to practice on first. It will take a bit of experimentation to get the mixture/thickness of the paint right and to perfect moving the gun at the right speed in order to get sufficient coverage, without getting paint runs. You can practice all this on an old panel, wiping it off and starting again each time until you get it right, before moving onto putting paint on the actual car.

[Marc_mcq]

So you reckon I should just go buy that spray gun, get some paint and a battered panel from a scrappy and see if it works?

All I can do is try it I suppose, if the results aren't great, I can just buy/ borrow a bigger compressor?

Am I right in thinking I could correct imperfections after painting with a bit of 2000 wet and dry more easily as its a solid colour?

[midridge2]

After the first flatting you dont need primer, paint the bar coat straight on then when dry, primer.
put about 4 coats of primer on then flat down with 800 w&d.
The starting mix is 50/50 and put 3 to 4 coats on then mix 75% paint 25% thinners and paint 2 coats on then a last coat of 90% paint and 10% thinners.
I dont think the compressor is really big enough to achive a reasonable finish, borrow/buy a bigger one if you can.

[AVV IT]

So you reckon I should just go buy that spray gun, get some paint and a battered panel from a scrappy and see if it works?

All I can do is try it I suppose, if the results aren't great, I can just buy/ borrow a bigger compressor?

Am I right in thinking I could correct imperfections after painting with a bit of 2000 wet and dry more easily as its a solid colour?

Pretty much yes, but be prepared for a lot of trial and error though. I've always found that the 50/50 thinner paint mix is a bit unrealistic and it takes a bit of experimation to get the paint mixed right.

Another tip if you're spraying in a garage is to avoid spraying at this time of year when there's a damp atmosphere. Ideally wait for spring/summer as you'll get better results when the air is drier, epecially if you are a beginner. It's also better to spray in the summer to avoid trapping any moisture that may be in the seams under the new paint.

If you do decide to have a go in the winter though, then consider getting hold of a space heater to warm the garage and panels a little before spraying. If you can't get hold of one of those then a portable gas heater is better than nothing, but do make sure it's off before you start spraying, as a naked flame and highly flammable paint fumes are not a good combination. Whatever time of year you choose, avoid spraying in the evening or early morning when the air is more humid and try to spray during the middle of the day instead. Also avoid days when it's raining or as been raining as the air will be damp.

I'd also recommend getting a half decent panel as opposed to one that's battered though, as you want a nice flat surface to practice on, one that's got some corrosion or damage around the edges should be fine though. Getting hold of a couple of old panels is even better, as you can practice on one whilst the other is drying, a couple of old classic mini doors are ideal as any corrosion/damage tends to be limited to the bottom of the door skin.

Edited by AVV IT, 06 January 2013 - 11:09 AM.

[AVV IT]

After the first flatting you dont need primer, paint the bar coat straight on then when dry, primer.
put about 4 coats of primer on then flat down with 800 w&d.
The starting mix is 50/50 and put 3 to 4 coats on then mix 75% paint 25% thinners and paint 2 coats on then a last coat of 90% paint and 10% thinners.
I dont think the compressor is really big enough to achive a reasonable finish, borrow/buy a bigger one if you can.

I'm no expert, but I was of the opinion that you applied thinner coats as you went, not thicker ones. I'd be surprised if you could even get any paint out of the gun without it clogging with only 10% thinners, you certainly couldn't with any gun I've ever used.

[Marc_mcq]

So you reckon I should just go buy that spray gun, get some paint and a battered panel from a scrappy and see if it works?

All I can do is try it I suppose, if the results aren't great, I can just buy/ borrow a bigger compressor?

Am I right in thinking I could correct imperfections after painting with a bit of 2000 wet and dry more easily as its a solid colour?

Pretty much yes, but be prepared for a lot of trial and error though. I've always found that the 50/50 thinner paint mix is a bit unrealistic and it takes a bit of experimation to get the paint mixed right.

Another tip if you're spraying in a garage is to avoid spraying at this time of year when there's a damp atmosphere. Ideally wait for spring/summer as you'll get better results when the air is drier, epecially if you are a beginner. It's also better to spray in the summer to avoid trapping any moisture that may be in the seams under the new paint.

If you do decide to have a go in the winter though, then consider getting hold of a space heater to warm the garage and panels a little before spraying. If you can't get hold of one of those then a portable gas heater is better than nothing, but do make sure it's off before you start spraying, as a naked flame and highly flammable paint fumes are not a good combination. Whatever time of year you choose, avoid spraying in the evening or early morning when the air is more humid and try to spray during the middle of the day instead. Also avoid days when it's raining or as been raining as the air will be damp.

I'd also recommend getting a half decent panel as opposed to one that's battered though, as you want a nice flat surface to practice on, one that's got some corrosion or damage around the edges should be fine though. Getting hold of a couple of old panels is even better, as you can practice on one whilst the other is drying, a couple of old classic mini doors are ideal as any corrosion/damage tends to be limited to the bottom of the door skin.

Thanks for that mate. All I can do is try it. Ive already wasted over £100 on the wrong colour rattle cans so I'm sure another £50 wouldn't be too bad haha.

Shall i just give it a go with the compressor I have got or should i think about getting one of these...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251069432487?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Although it does add £200 to the cost

[midridge2]

sorry my mistake, yes it needs to be thinner as the more coats you put on. it was early in the morning when i typed. lol

[Marc_mcq]

Haha. If its a really thin coat for the last one, to prevent runs, do you just apply a really thin coat?

[midridge2]

95% thinners, this gives it its shine.

[Marc_mcq]

95%???

I don't see the point?

[Skortchio]

I've got and used one of those exact compressors to paint a variety of things with no ill effect. As said, painting while the compressor is priming can cause a pressure fluctuation but it's simply a case of not spraying in those 30seconds or so. Cellulose doesn't flash off like 2k so you'll not have problems waiting while you get a full tank again. The tank should be more than sufficient to do 2 sections of car at a time.

As said, if you have a solid base coat then you don't need to go back to metal. A bar coat will stop reactions but perhaps a little more aggressive with your grit choices as the idea is to make a surface that's solid and easy for the paint to bite into.

Removing imperfections should be done between coats where needed, again you'll be there for weeks with 2000grit. 600-800 will sort out fish eyes, runs, swells and such.

After the final coats leave the paint a decent amount of time (ie. a week or two temperature dependant) if you're not using any heating. Cellulose dries by evaporation of the thinners and on multilple coats this takes time, you really don't want to start polishing only to drag the paint everywhere as it's still soft.
1200 grit for any dust / blemishes followed by compound and a DA polisher will leave a very nice and better than factory finish.

Putting paint on the panel is the easy bit, the prep and meticulous attention to detail in that stage will make or break your job.

Worst case, rub down and do it again

[firstforward]

95% thinners, this gives it its shine.

Have you actually done any painting? or are you guessing?