18 replies to this topic

[Max1330]

Hi everyone.

Ive looked everywhere for and answer on here but i cant find a tread?!

Ive had some starting problems... I had a reconditioned starter that turned over about a month ago once or twice but has been temperamental, now when trying to start the car the power cable that feeds the starter sparks at the solenoid. and the engine earth and battery cable gets hot? the starter has now been tested and wont spin. ive checked the battery and its fine, ive checked the voltage at the solenoid and its fine but there is no voltage at the starter. it has new earth strap both engine and battery.

i want to know how the solenoid is earthed? any photos would be great.
ive got a new starter today, but i dont want to try it in case it breaks again?

Any info will be great! Thanks

[Max1330]

Anyoneeeee :)

[Big_Adam]

The starter won't spin? You mean on a bench or what?

Either way, I'd pull it off and check it on the bench (with a bit of wood or a vice with soft jaws to stop it going walk about). Stater earths, like everything else, through the engine to to the earth strap.

If you want an easy earth strap check, chuck a jumper cable from a lump of metal on the engine to the bat negative or to the body, which ever is easy.

[Max1330]

The starter won't spin? You mean on a bench or what?

Either way, I'd pull it off and check it on the bench (with a bit of wood or a vice with soft jaws to stop it going walk about). Stater earths, like everything else, through the engine to to the earth strap.

If you want an easy earth strap check, chuck a jumper cable from a lump of metal on the engine to the bat negative or to the body, which ever is easy.

Yeah i checked the starter on the bench, and today i exchanged it for a new one. im just worried it will break again like the last one if i try it on the car? So i wondered where the solenoid is suppose to be earthed? As ive read its ment to be earthed on the inner wing, but i have no inner wings? Thanks for the reply

[Big_Adam]

Yeah i checked the starter on the bench, and today i exchanged it for a new one. im just worried it will break again like the last one if i try it on the car? So i wondered where the solenoid is suppose to be earthed? As ive read its ment to be earthed on the inner wing, but i have no inner wings? Thanks for the reply

I'm getting you now. My old El Odio was like that, check it with a jumper cable as its the simplest way to see if its an earth problem. If it is, then run a nice chunky wire from the ground of the starter (the body I guess? I never had a fancy solenoid starter, just an inertia starter) see how that goes.

If you're really worried, check it on the bench before fitting, then you know it all works before sliding it into the engine.

[KernowCooper]

Trouble is now lots not all reconditioned are poor quality, just take the steering market! there are auto factors out there selling recon parts for silly money and they make a profit on it so you know it cant have much done to it.

Edited by KernowCooper, 28 January 2013 - 10:28 PM.

[Max1330]

Yeah i checked the starter on the bench, and today i exchanged it for a new one. im just worried it will break again like the last one if i try it on the car? So i wondered where the solenoid is suppose to be earthed? As ive read its ment to be earthed on the inner wing, but i have no inner wings? Thanks for the reply

I'm getting you now. My old El Odio was like that, check it with a jumper cable as its the simplest way to see if its an earth problem. If it is, then run a nice chunky wire from the ground of the starter (the body I guess? I never had a fancy solenoid starter, just an inertia starter) see how that goes.

If you're really worried, check it on the bench before fitting, then you know it all works before sliding it into the engine.

I know this one is working now, its the newer type starter with a separate solenoid. but i didnt know if the solenoid had a separate earth? Im pretty confident that the engine earth strap is working fine as i cleaned it all up and its brand new. I just dont want to break another starter! Although it may have just been a dudd starter to begin with...

[Max1330]

Trouble is now lots not all reconditioned are poor quality, just take the steering market! there are auto factors out there selling recon parts for silly money and they make a profit on it so you know it cant have much done to it.

Yeah thats a possible factor too, ive heard a few starters have gone back to this particular company recently...

[bmcecosse]

It's hardly the 'newer' starter with a separate solenoid. It must be an inertia starter - and it is designed to be used with the pre-verto flywheel ring gear. So - what type of clutch do you have - and is the ring gear in good condition? I assume the engine turns over easily enough - and the timing is not too advanced so it's kicking against the starter ??

[Max1330]

It is the inertia type. the solenoid unit is bolted to the subframe strengtheners, will that be a suitable earth? Also the main engine earth strap and starter cable was getting hot, is that normal? the engine turns over fine. the timing is currently set up for a SC mini as ive recently gone back to NA this weekend so its not advanced. thanks

[ACDodd]

The clue is your cables that are getting hot and sparking. These need replacing ideally with soldered terminals.

Your car will continue to 'eat' starters if you do not overhaul the starting circuit.

I also rebuild starter motors for MLMotorsport and the results of have bad connections int he starting circuit are pretty terminal for a starter motor.

AC

Edited by ACDodd, 28 January 2013 - 11:39 PM.

[tiger99]

You have two problems, and nothing at all to do with the solenoid earth. Firstly, something is very stiff, causing the starter to not turn properly, so it is drawing much more current than normal and causing the cables to become hot. Or, the starter connection is short circuiting to earth, so check the terminal etc. Secondly, whichever connection is sparking needs to be dismantled and cleaned.

[Max1330]

The clue is your cables that are getting hot and sparking. These need replacing ideally with soldered terminals.

Your car will continue to 'eat' starters if you do not overhaul the starting circuit.

I also rebuild starter motors for MLMotorsport and the results of have bad connections int he starting circuit are pretty terminal for a starter motor.

AC

So i can start by replacing the starter motor power lead from the solenoid? And better still replace the solenoid too?

What do you meen exactly by overhaul the starter circuit? Thanks alot

[Max1330]

You have two problems, and nothing at all to do with the solenoid earth. Firstly, something is very stiff, causing the starter to not turn properly, so it is drawing much more current than normal and causing the cables to become hot. Or, the starter connection is short circuiting to earth, so check the terminal etc. Secondly, whichever connection is sparking needs to be dismantled and cleaned.

Again, i have a new starter now as the other one was faulty. How will the starter short circuit the earth? And if it is, how can i stop it? Im going to replace the starter lead that was sparking, with a new one. Thanks again

[tiger99]

I never suggested that the starter would "short circuit the earth". If the main terminal of the starter, or something inside, is short-circuiting TO earth, the starter will not go, and cables will become very hot. Check the plastic insulator around the terminal bolt, and that the lead, nut or washers are not touching the casing.

Before changing a cable, you should establish where it was sparling. If between the wire and crimped-on terminal lug, the crimp is faulty or corroded, so you do need to change it. If the sparking is between the terminal lug and the terminal bolt, nut or washers, you only need to take it off and clean the mating surfaces.