39 replies to this topic

[Ipod]

thanks A-cell... i'll dont think i let it bottom out, will check tomorrow

[MRA]

The bottom line is this is safety critical and a torque wrench should be used, lots of people have found out to there dismay that these must be tightened correctly, this is one area that is difficult to use a torque wrench, therefore I would like to suggest a little life saver.

Tighten by hand using a ring spanner, (it may need to be slimmed down) then after about 50 to 100 miles check it again, do this a couple of times for safeties sake.

I use a ring extension, like a crows foot but a ring and not open, however it depends on how you use these extra tools, if it is in line with the torque wrench or at a different angle you WILL get different results.

[Cooperman]

On competition Minis I use a castellated nut and split pin.
On road Minis I use a Nyloc nut tightened without a torque wrench, but just nice and tight with the big spreader washer bottomed out on the register on the tie bar.

[bmcecosse]

The poly bushes are thicker - and bottoming out may be difficult/too much. Common sense rules apply..........

[MRA]

The poly bushes are thicker - and bottoming out may be difficult/too much. Common sense rules apply..........

In my opinion if you can't "bottom out" the nut then there is something wrong. and possibly something quite fundamentally important here that people are often missing out is fatigue, if the nut is not able to sit up against the stepped shank then the thread will be under cyclic loading resulting in fatigue failure.

People often miss the obvious when it comes to design, and safety critical parts are often manufactured by companies that have not got the correct insurance policy to cover the failure should it turn nasty.

I know how much it costs to insure for the minimum £10m to manufacture safety critical parts. As I have to find it each year.

[Cooperman]

I won't use poly bushes on either side as my personal feeling is that they don't have sufficient compliance for road driving, or even for rallying. They are so easy to change and poly bushes give almost no advantage in normal driving.
The standard original quality rubber ones are fine.

[MRA]

I fear that your normal driving is different to others Peter

I don't use rubber or poly I much prefer to use spherical brearings as these almost entirely eliminate under steer, turn in is increased and there is no weave under braking and I have the biggest brakes under a 13" wheel at 285mm disc size.

[firstforward]

I fear that your normal driving is different to others Peter

I don't use rubber or poly I much prefer to use spherical brearings as these almost entirely eliminate under steer, turn in is increased and there is no weave under braking and I have the biggest brakes under a 13" wheel at 285mm disc size.

Educate me a bit more on these, can you buy them, is there anywhere to read up on the technical merits.

[tiger99]

Just to add to what has been said, in case it is not clear, unless the nut "bottoms", i.e. the front washer is clamped firmly against the shoulder on the tie rod, it is unsafe, and WILL FAIL sooner or later. The assembly MUST be clamped up solid. If the bushes don't allow that, they are unsafe and must not be used.

Once bottomed, tight with a decent sized spanner is all I ever did, always with a new Nylok nut.

[JVA10L]

I fear that your normal driving is different to others Peter

I don't use rubber or poly I much prefer to use spherical brearings as these almost entirely eliminate under steer, turn in is increased and there is no weave under braking and I have the biggest brakes under a 13" wheel at 285mm disc size.

Educate me a bit more on these, can you buy them, is there anywhere to read up on the technical merits.

You can buy them here: http://www.minispare...rch/classic/tie bar.aspx|Back to search

They are good on a circuit racer but probably overkill for a road car or even a rally car.

Edit: the description even says "Not advised for general road use".

Edited by JVA10L, 15 March 2013 - 01:45 PM.

[Cooperman]

On rally cars I always use a pair of rubber bushes each side. Even poly bushes don't have the necessary compliance for rallying as the shock loads from the front wheels through the tie bars and into the 'ears' on the sub-frame need some damping. It is possible, in rallying, to pull the ears off of the sub-frame and to cure this most rally cars have the ears 'triangulated' with a piece of 1/8" steel plate. For racing on what are totally smooth tracks rose joints are undoubtedly ideal. If anyone needs a photo of the 'triangulation plate' just let me know.

[Ipod]

So they were done tight (bottomed out) :0)

whilst i was under there checking, it was my teardrop mounts that were also knackered (badly) so my local motor factors got them for me within the hour, replaced them (o what fun getting the ickle bolt that hold the bush inplace back in...no fakkin room even for my skinny fingers)

donking noise and eratic behaviour when braking now gone)

Thanks for all your advice folks....much apreciated

[tiger99]

That is interesting. The worn teardrop mounts affected the handling! There are some people on here who deny the structural importance of the teardrops and/or the inner or outer wings, which of course support the front panel which carries the teardrops. Well, there is the proof that they are completely wrong, as I have always maintained.

[Cooperman]

A personal opinion, but there is little point in having poly bushes to 'tighten up' the steering response if there are still the old rubber mountings on the sub-frame. The very best way of improving steering response is to solid mount (and that's not poly-bush mount) the front sub-frame to make it a rigid installation like all the early cars and to get all the dynamic loading straight into the monocoque body-shell.

[MRA]

A personal opinion, but there is little point in having poly bushes to 'tighten up' the steering response if there are still the old rubber mountings on the sub-frame. The very best way of improving steering response is to solid mount (and that's not poly-bush mount) the front sub-frame to make it a rigid installation like all the early cars and to get all the dynamic loading straight into the monocoque body-shell.

That is the first step, the ultimate is fitting rose jointed tie bars and bottom arms, the MinSpares item are slightly lighter duty than I use, this is because the Mini Spares item is designed to be lighter and therefore reduce vehicle mass, mine are based around a 5/8 spherical joint and tie bar, I don't have any issues with torque steer or weave under braking etc.