11 replies to this topic

[GreenMini17]

Probably been asked a million times but here goes. Ive recently had the rear subframe out, painted, poly bushes and new DSN alloy mounts. Got the subframe back in (with a bit of levering and heev-ho as the bolt holes didnt quite aline in places, i assume due to new bushes pushing the mounts out each side). Got all the rear end together, minispares recon arms and adjustable camber/track brackets. One problem.

Looking from the rear of the car there is about 1 3/4" gap between the bottom of the shock and the subframe on the left hand side. On the right hand side there is perhaps only 3/4". I have the track brackets as far forward on the 'toe in' setting as possible on both sides. The other thing about this is that the shock does not sit square in the shock tower. At first glance it appears i need more toe in to bring the arm further out at the rear and away from the body/subframe, but to do this means filing about 3-5mm out of the track brackets.

The subframe as far as i am aware is orginal.

I have measured from the heel plate to the centre of the radius arm shaft and i have 3mm more toe in on the left (correct) side than on the right (the side with the problem).

I am going to have the arm off tomorrow night and check i have the washers the correct way round on the shaft of the radius arm i.e the thick one on the inside against the subframe and the thinner one against the track brackets.

What else would cause this problem? My easy way out is to take a file to the tracking bracket, but that is kind of a bodge in my eyes, not actually resloving the issue.

[YIANO]

Ok chris . Try to set it up in relation to your shell . Using your sills and some long straight timbers you can accurately set the toe to equalise against the body shell. On mine the brackets were adjusted this way to gain equal toe side to side despite me setting the brackets differently . So jack up car takeoff wheel . Using long timber against sill which extends to rear hub face use ruler to measure and set toe equal to both sides I used camber gauge to set my camber and worth investment ill say . Any who the trick is to set up your toe castor and camber against you bodyshell as subframe alignment is never true. And your mini will drive straight
Peace
Jon

[GreenMini17]

Ok chris . Try to set it up in relation to your shell . Using your sills and some long straight timbers you can accurately set the toe to equalise against the body shell. On mine the brackets were adjusted this way to gain equal toe side to side despite me setting the brackets differently . So jack up car takeoff wheel . Using long timber against sill which extends to rear hub face use ruler to measure and set toe equal to both sides I used camber gauge to set my camber and worth investment ill say . Any who the trick is to set up your toe castor and camber against you bodyshell as subframe alignment is never true. And your mini will drive straight
Peace
Jon

Thanks very much, i had actually planned on doing this. So providing i have the same reading both sides against the shell, i shouldnt worry that one arm is a lot closer to the subframe than the other?

[YIANO]

As long as the radius arms aren't bent chris then even if the subframe wasn't square in the shell the distance between the wheels and subframe should be the same + or - . All your doing is equalising the to each side against the bodyshell which eliminates the problem of a non true bodyshell or any alignment issues subframe to shell etc.
Like I said one of my brackets needed to be adjusted a lot more than the other to equalise toe from side to side against the shell.
So don't worry too much as long as your radius arms are the same length which they should be unless bent you'll be fine .
Even with my r1 yamaha setup the car handles nice with foot to the floor so I know this system works.
Place the wood along the sill so it reaches along in front of rear hub and this is 0mm ie dead straight ahead. Use an accurate rule to measure 1.5 mm or whatever an individual side of toe out is I can't remember lol and adjust the radius arm in its slotted bracket until the forward edge of your hub is 1.5 mm or whatever from your sill wood .

[Cooperman]

The rear wheel MUST toe-in at between 1/16" and 1/8" as an inclusive figure (i.e. considering both sides). That is an absolutely critical dimension.
With the big difference the OP has it seems as though something is bent or mis-aligned.

[GreenMini17]

The rear wheel MUST toe-in at between 1/16" and 1/8" as an inclusive figure (i.e. considering both sides). That is an absolutely critical dimension.
With the big difference the OP has it seems as though something is bent or mis-aligned.

When you say inclusive you mean 3mm (1/8") in total as in 1.5mm each side?

I have had the side in question apart yet again tonight. Ive measured from sills into subframe and checked my arms are not bent. Nothing obvious appears to be bent. The subframe may not be totally square within the shell but i thought this didnt matter (as the tracking brackets allowed the wheels to be aligned correctly)?

I literally have no idea what to do next. There is a massive difference between the two sides. I will check the tracking at the weekend using the wood-against-sill method and see what happens.

Is the shock body usually pretty tight against the bodywork and bottom of the subframe? I cant remember what it was like when i removed it?!

Any help is greatly appreciated :)

[M30]

One of my lower shock bolts touched the subframe when I bought my car, it turned out to be the front crossmember part of the subframe that was bent towards the rear. When I took the subby off i knocked it straight with the big hammer and a block of wood.

Stu

[skoughi]

Have you checked the front wheels are correctly aligned? The reason I ask is if they're correct with regards castor and toe then measure the wheelbase each side to see if both sides match and surely that will indicate if the rear sub is square with regards the front wheels. If the rear sub isn't square then that could put one shock closer to the inside of the tyre compared to the other. I went with coopermans advice on checking front and rear alignment but I used a length of fishing line up both sides tied to timber lengths (the lines were parrallel) along the front and rear. I did this as Its rare to find a straight length of wood, never mind two! I also measured off the subframes to equalise the lines off the car instead of the body as I don't trust my bodywork skills as I've done a lot of work on my shell and I don't believe It's equal on both sides! Once the wheelbase is the same both sides then check rear toe to see if it can be adjusted and maybe correct the problem, then if that don't help then the problem is elsewhere. Someone please correct me if I'm talking out my rear!

[Cooperman]

The rear wheel MUST toe-in at between 1/16" and 1/8" as an inclusive figure (i.e. considering both sides). That is an absolutely critical dimension.
With the big difference the OP has it seems as though something is bent or mis-aligned.

When you say inclusive you mean 3mm (1/8") in total as in 1.5mm each side?

I have had the side in question apart yet again tonight. Ive measured from sills into subframe and checked my arms are not bent. Nothing obvious appears to be bent. The subframe may not be totally square within the shell but i thought this didnt matter (as the tracking brackets allowed the wheels to be aligned correctly)?

I literally have no idea what to do next. There is a massive difference between the two sides. I will check the tracking at the weekend using the wood-against-sill method and see what happens.

Is the shock body usually pretty tight against the bodywork and bottom of the subframe? I cant remember what it was like when i removed it?!

Any help is greatly appreciated :)

The TOTAL, i.e. inclusive as in 'both sides measured as one measurement', MUST be 1/16" to 1/8" toe-in. This is the most critical setting on the entire suspension, front or back. Don't think of it as one side and then the other side.

You need to fine someone who can check and set the car up using a 4-wheel laser measuring set-up.

[YIANO]

This is a weird one ! Check your damper rod isn't bent by removing the damper .
Also eliminate the radius arm bushings bearings etc on the offending side .
Lastly it has been known that certain brands of adjustable rear brackets are a bit erm **** and may need a little filing to regain adjustment range
Try and get s picture up maybe it might shed some light on what's really going on

[GreenMini17]

Right i think im being dumb now. Ive got a length of straight timber against my sill and aline with my rear hub face. I dont understand what im measuring? I have a good steel rule and measuring from the timber to the hub face im getting like 25mm? Im obviously measuring something wrong. Help?!!

[YIANO]

Ok send me an email to [email protected] and ill send back a pic which shows what to do