24 replies to this topic

[adam c]

Started to have a go at my roof tonight and it turned out to be a lot worse than i thought. As it turns out its rotten on both front corners and practically right across the front. On the OS its also taken out the top of the pillar. This is what it looked like before i started on it;

And i then started to clean it with a wire brush in a drill, i decided this was the best method since it was gonna need major surgery anyway.
After cleaning;

Sorry the pictures aren't the best but basically the whole front had been filled and there was rot along most of the front edge, just don't want to clean it all yet incase me roof falls out!!

Basically i just want your suggestions on the best course of action to take. I have the entire roof with three quarters of the pillars off my mayfair and its pretty sound apart from some minor rust on the gutter lip. The back of the roof dosen't seem bad and isn't holed so i only need replace the front section...
How can i weld it without distorting it?? Would a lipper be of use for this job, they're expensive but if its worth it i'll get one?? Also theres about 6 layers of paint on my roof so i'm thinking of paint stripping the entire roof meaning i'd have to etch prime the entire thing so can you buy it to spray from a gun or can you only get it in aerosols??

Any general advice for the job would be good :grin: :grin: Cheers :grin:

[dklawson]

That is really too bad!
The extent of these repairs goes well beyond anything I've attempted. Swapping roofs and or 2 to 3 pillars is certainly a delicate task. I'm sure it can be done but this will be difficult to pull off without distortion. If you decide to swap any parts out, spend hours making and recording very careful measurements of all the window and door openings (straight and diagonal). Since you've got the Mayfair as a donor I'd measure it as well. The measurements should be the same, but things could have shifted on the car you're restoring. You'll need the measurements to put things back to "right" when and if you weld the Mayfair parts on.

[bluebottle]

sound advice there doug, but i think adams mayfair is beyond being used as a comparison for measurements, see the mini trailors thread in the projects section..... :grin:

[Pavel]

lol @ bluebottle.

Adam, talk to a few guys that did roof chops, since they have to reweld a roof with pillars... Perhaps you could even attempt a roof chop yourself since you're going to have to re-do the roof..

[tom]

Turn it into a Cabriolet!

[adam c]

Theres no way i'm having a cabriolet so that leaves the option of bodging it all back up with filler or welding it so no contest really. Bet i'd never even find a body shop to weld it for me :sad:
This is bad :sad:

[siggy]

Please don't bodge it with filler, thats not safe.

The roof on the mayfair is different to the 73, the 73 has an extra lip running along the sides. But it could be used , its only a problem when you come to sell it and someone notices it.

Siggy

[Pickup76]

Im doing a course in car body repair to learn how to restor my pickup and the teacher would lead load something like that.
You'll need to get a few bits from you local car body refinishing suppliers but it is prety easy to do and not a bodge fix like filler.
First you get some of this sort of flux solder stuff and wipe that all over the area you want to load then heat that up so it keys to the metal. Then get the stick of lead and heat it with a hot air gun till it goes like putty and spread it on then when its cooled file it down and your done (might need a tiny bit of filler just for astetics)
The advantage of this lead loading is that it becomes part of the body and so water cant get between it and the body like with filler. Also if you have an accident it wont just pop out.
:wink:

[Dom]

is it repairable?

looks behind repair.

whats wrong with convertibles?

[adam c]

Nothing wrong with convertables, i just don't like them and could never afford to ensure one. I also thing it would be a bit of a tragic waste of a classic car of this age.

Its beyond repair by normal standards (i.e its gotta be welded)

Don't worry theres no filler goin near this car apart from for any minor blemishes or dents, all holes and rust are being chopped out and welded

Have read how to lead load before but have been told its very difficult and i'm not sure if its any use for repairing holes, especially big ones like this. If i can master it i hope to lead load all the seams and maybe try and get a bit in the gutters but i've gotta weld it first!

It would be really nice and quite easy to weld a plate on the back and then fill over the top but its a bit of a bodge and there is also no easy access from the inside as there is a strengthening rim running round the inside. Theres also gutters in the way when it comes to sanding the filler. I could make it easier by taking the gutter off (deseeming the roof) but i'm not keen on this look and it would be hard work i think. I also doubt i could use the entire roof of the mayfair as it would be very difficult to cut the pillars to the exact height and i know how weak the body shell is with the entire roof cut off :sad:

Grrrrrrr.....Would i ever find a proffesional who would do a job like this or is that just gonna blow my budget completely??

More advice please :sad: .....

[dklawson]

You're right that lead work alone won't fix your roof problems. However, it is appropriate for some aspects of this repair. Not knowing how bad the pillars are, these comments are directed just toward the roof itself.

You could weld on patch panel(s) on the inside as you mentioned hiding them under the headliner and windscreen frame. Properly cleaned on the outside, lead loading would be a good method to blend and fill this on the outside. Lead has the advantage of NOT cracking over time like thick plastic filler. It's really ideal for high-stress repairs like near door hinges, etc. I've been told plastic filler on roofs is particularly problematic but I have no first hand experience.

That said, don't be afraid of plastic filler. THIN films used to build up minor depressions in panels is an appropriate use. It's often used in combination with lead work on extensive repairs where the lead builds up and blends things together but the final surface is smoothed out with plastic.

[adam c]

Cheers doug, when i get towards the end of the project i'll have a practice with some lead on my trailer project and then see if i'll be able to do this on the roof and the rest of the shell.

I am currently thinking of cutting the whole 6/8 inches off the front of the roof together with the top of the pillars and then weld the front of the mayfair one in place....

I have come up with two ideas today for how to do this, the welding isn't too much of a problem, if i can't do it i know many people who'll do it for me. The problem is marking and cutting it out accurately;

Plan 1 - Cover the entire roof in srips of paper and then stick them all together and make them to the exact shape of the roof. Then take the paper off and try and draw a roughly straight line on where i want to cut. Then stick the paper in place with tape or summit and make the cut. Then remove the two halves of the paper and stick them on the mayfair roof and do the same....

Plan 2 - Either make or get some roof rack type brakets that will fit the roof gutters perfectly. Then make up a very elabourate and accurate roof rack out of box section and fix the brakets to it and fix it to the roof. Then make some sort of rails on it and some sort of carriage to run along them. Then fix my grinder to the carriage and then just run it accross the roof making a perfectly straight cut with little distortion. Then transfer the rack to the mayfair roof and use washers to move the grinder slightly so the panel is fractionally smaller than necessary to allow weld penetration.

I'll use paper/cardboard/steel/wooden templates to cut the pillars accurately.

They're the plans at the minute, i'm gonna try the rack one i think, if it works it'll certainly be worth keeping, maybe i could become a roof repair specialist!!!

[dklawson]

Your first method sounds a little easier to implement.

When I've made patch panels for the floor/bulkhead and other areas like that I've made thin cardboard templates like you're suggesting. Your paper template should work well to establish a rough shape and size for the donor panel. However, make sure you cut the Mayfair roof section "oversized" then lay it over the opening you cut out on the older Mini. Clamp the Mayfair roof in place as best you can, then scribe and cut the exact profile on the Mayfair roof so you get a perfect butt joint.

With large flat panels like this, do short welds of 20-25mm in length. Cool them with a wet rag as soon as you stop the torch. Do not try and go all the way across in one go. Do not do one weld followed by another one right next to it. Jump around, one weld on the right side, one weld on the left, one in the middle... and so on. Gradually your short welds will become one long "stitched" weld. You want to do everything you can to minimize the distortion.

[adam c]

Cheers - am thinking of tacking it on and then since its quite crucial it doesn't get distorted I might entrust the final welding to someone whos a bit better but i'll certainly give it a go..

[bluebottle]

just a thought, would it be worth putting a strap on the inside of the roof joint, like the ones that are used when you de-seam a mini.

if it was tacked on first, it would give you a lip to rest the back end of the repair section on, perhaps a couple of little lugs on the pillars would assist in lining it up as well.