39 replies to this topic

[justkitteh]

So I'm looking into a bike engined Mini for a daly driver, I would have the engine covered and what not like this: or something... I'm asuming it's fairly loud without.

Anyway, I was wondering what the upkeep is on a bike engined Mini. I know you have to oil the chain, but how often? And what else is there that you need to do?

I'm still not quite sure if I'd really like a Mini what with the lack of storrage and what not but this would be a while down the road... I'm also not really sure which engine I would use, probably and R1 or a Busa depending on the cost and everything...

And after all that, would the Civic kit be better as a daly driver? It is after all still rear drive and mid/rear engined, plus I would asume it's got a real reverse gear rather then an electril motor...

So really just any thoughts you have on the matter... The other 2 cars I'm concidering are an 88 CRX with a b16 and an old Model T that's been chopped within an inch of it's life. This would be my only car, but living with other people who have real cars means I really don't need more then a fun car with a decent sound system that's got enough room for me, and a friend and maybe a couple of backpacks... Which can almost certainly go on that friends lap and in the foot well.

Oh, I would probably have ZCars build it for me as Minis this side of the pond seem to run upwards of $5k or like £3k and I've heard that you can pick up a relatively rust free rolling chassi over there for much much less. I'm more confident in other people's abilities as far as a daly driver goes anyway...

[justkitteh]

Earlier I thought I just wasn't looking hard enough... But I can't seem to find ANYTHING about the ZCars min engine Civic conversion.

Anyone know anything? If i went this rout i would probably do it with a 4age 20v black top... about the same power output, but its cheaper from what I've seen, lighter, and it sounds better.

[Ade]

Even with the engine boxed in they are very loud! Personally i wouldn't use mine as a daily driver to be honest.

The lack of storage can be mildly irritating but then thats never what they were designed for lol

As a daily driver i think the type r engined version would probably be a much better idea.

[Jammy]

Personally I wouldn't have a bike engined mini as a daily drive. I think that it would just be too loud, even with half a tonne of sound proofing around it.

You won't find much about the rear engined Honda kit, its a relatively new kit and not many people (noone on here) has done one.

[Sprocket]

http://www.theminifo...23718&hl=z cars

And if you want my opinion, a bike engine is for a bike and a car engine is for a car, it has a reverse gear.

[justkitteh]

I wonder why I couldn't find that, I guess im just a search n00b or something. ;P

As for noise... it wouldn't bother me SO much, I've heard (read: random idiotic forum posts usually not here) that the Hayabusa isn't as loud. My plan was to box it and then cover the box with sound proofing. It's not like I want a quiet car, I just don't want to go deaf... tho alot of fun it would be I'm sure.

Looking at dynos for the R1 and the Busa it seemed to me like you could be shifting at 3-4k rpm witht he Busa, and that you would actually have to get the R1 revving pretty high. Lower revs generally being not as loud... Why can't there be a car engine with output like a bike?

There's another company making a gear box for the Busa, however it's for the F/R layout in the Cappuccino so tho you might be able to do an F/R mini, no mid engined madness.

The thing about a car engine in the mini is from what ive heard, sure, you can get 200 hp out of a civic, but they have no bottom end... the Busa has that bottom end.

I guess I'm going to look a bit more into that Cappuccino/Hayabusa box, see if that wont fit a mini and how expencive it would be... I'll link anything interesting I find as surely I'm not the only one interested.

Anyway, I'm off now, but fist I'll share my wet dream with you guys:



V8 Hayabusa, revs over 10k rpm, 372bhp, and its reasonably small... 2.6l

[Sprocket]

Are you sure its not the other way round. The bike engine is all top end, they are all power and no torque, pretty much nothing down the bottom, car engines are all bottom end but have a far better spread of the torque across the revs, car engines are all torque with less power.

Power is a nonsensical figure when talking about cars realy. Power is work done but torque is the actual force the engine produces. The heavier the vehicle the more torque required to accelerate it faster

Remember that Power is a calculation of torque by revs. so work out where your 372bhp peaked in the rev range and then work out the torque.

Another thing about bike engines in cars, they have to be reved high when starting off due to this lack of torque, the end result is worn out clutches very fast. Also the engines are fragile. The internal components were never designed for the loads that a car can produce, more so that the drivetrain is geared down as well.

Bike engines are for bikes and car engines are for cars, its a fad and will eventualy fade out when these new modern all aluminium car engines producing the torque and power become cheap and available

Just my tuppence worth.

Not trying to perswade you otherwise, they are great little cars, but for a daily driver, never. Its your decision at the end of the day and I shall respect you for it.

Seen the V8 Hyabusa ages ago, i posted a link somewhere. Its only because its a V8, 372bhp is not much

And this Hyabusa 1.3 turbo is 400bhp. I have heard of them reaching 540bhp with 30psi boost, how true that is i dont know but i seen the head, it had melted the land between the two exhaust seats

[justkitteh]

372bhp from 2.6l is pretty good... Sure it's not huge for a V8, but neither is the engine's displacement.

I thought Torque was derived from power/revs, I'm sure you're probably right tho.~


I'm not famillian with N.M. torque ratings, but the Hayabusa puts out 99 N.M. at 3000rpm... which I THINK is pretty good... certainly alot more then the R1...

edit: I think it apropriot that weight be mentioned when it comes to torque, they say the Hayabusa conversion is 600kg which is quite a bit less then a standard car, oddly its quite a bit more then the R1 conversion. Why so much heavier, I mean, that extra .3l can't add 25KG to the weight of the motor? /edit

http://www.mcnews.co...00/bus_dyno.htm moo :|

Anyway, ZCars advertises that they can boost the power of the vtec to ~250, wouldn't that leave you with equily little bottom end?

I think im just afraid the car motor will weigh a good deal more. From the pictures it looks positioned farther back in the car as well. You get a tube subframe for the front which would put an even larger weight bias on the back. I also wish there were performance numbers... Would you expect them to be far off from the bike engined car's? Slower faster heavier how much and so on.

[Jammy]

The 1.6 Honda Vtec puts out more torque than the 99 Nm of the Busa, not sure how much more, but I know it was a bit over 100.

Power is derived from power and revs.

600kg is only quite a bit less heavier than certain minis. My Clubman when it came out the factory would of been ~630kg. I'm planning to get it well below that.

As for weights of the Type R engine Z cars use and the weight bias, I'm not so sure, never looked into it that much.

[The Matt]

Having been with MiniSprocket at the place where those photos were taken I have to agree. (kit car show at Oulton Park).

The bike engined kit cars in general (not just Z cars) seemed to be having a bit of a mare on the day. You really could notice them struggling to pull off out of the pits from standing (maybe because the drivers weren't used to the lack of bottom end torque).

I think the difference with the Type-R engine and the bike engine is the lower down torque and where in the rev-range you get the power. You can pull away without having to rev to like 3000-4000rpm and to me this makes loads more sense.

Certainly in my opinion I agree with MS on this, bike engined kits are a nice idea, but the car engine means you can drive them like a car.

BIKE engine is for bikes, CAR engine is for cars!


And to all the people that have bike engined minis on here-

I think the cars are AMAZING (especially Ades Minus), but I wouldn't like to try and use one for anything other than trackdays etc.

[justkitteh]

So, I got a reply from Chris, I so wish I could get a demo. Stupid 8000 miles.

Anyway:

0 to 60 in 3.25 seconds
100 to 0 in 4.5 seconds and
12.5 second standing quarter mile

DEEEEEEM I supose that's to be expected tho. When I first read Civic I thought B16... my fault.

He says it's perfectly quiet around town as you would expect with a normal car.

However I'm a bit concerned with what it costs... *goes to look* Oh... there was a Civic Type R with a B16... and the current one has the engine from the RSX? it doesnt say if its form the RSX Type R tho... Looking at the pictures I think it is the B16... I'll ask.

[The Matt]

So, I got a reply from Chris, I so wish I could get a demo. Stupid 8000 miles.

Anyway:

0 to 60 in 3.25 seconds
100 to 0 in 4.5 seconds and
12.5 second standing quarter mile

DEEEEEEM I supose that's to be expected tho. When I first read Civic I thought B16... my fault.

He says it's perfectly quiet around town as you would expect with a normal car.

However I'm a bit concerned with what it costs... *goes to look* Oh... there was a Civic Type R with a B16... and the current one has the engine from the RSX? it doesnt say if its form the RSX Type R tho... Looking at the pictures I think it is the B16... I'll ask.

The Type-R we generally refer to is the 2.0L one. As far as I know we didn't have the B16 Type-R over here.

Someone, will prolly correct me on that. But I think the Z-Cars used the 2 litre engine.

EDIT: Yeah, I am fairly sure they use the K20A (the RSX engine as you know it).

[Jammy]

B16 is a 1.6 Vtec, *I think* the smallest Type R we got was the 1.8 (B18) Type R found in the Integra. Theres also a B20 Type R.

Z Cars use the K20 Type R found in the 2.0l Civic.

[justkitteh]

Ok, that's what I thought, but I went looking for prices and theres an R spec B16 apperently, and it looks more like the one in the frame pictured above then the K20A...

Damn that's an expencive motor... I wonder what the numbers on the 4AGE 20v Blacktop would be... it's only rated at 165hp... but im sure it's a good deal lighter then the K20A... maybe.

I'd like a sub 4 second 0-60 which I think it can probably manage... I'll have to find dynos for the 2 or something...

At anyrate, it would be pretty sweet to have a totally stock looking mini, with this visable through the back:

[Jammy]

Yip, thats the K20 Type R, rated at 200 bhp, Z Cars will then remap it (if you pay for their mapping system), they told me to expect 220-230bhp, but that was when I was talking to them about the front engined kit. They also told me it would be 2.5k for them to source the engine.

If your looking at the a 165bhp 4A-GE engine then look into the B16, IMO a slightly better engine, similar power, and would probably be easier for them to adapt the kit for this engine.