13 replies to this topic

[merther]

I want to fit modern fia bucket seats to my mini. They are fibreglass side mounted one's but i don't want to weld in bars across the floor. Has anyone mounted them on sliders, or any other way?

Thanks.

[keefr22]

Ours came with OMP FIA seats floor mounted on these;

http://www.demon-twe...eel-side-mounts

However, like much else on the car they weren't fitted properly. The Blue Book states you need specific size 3mm thick strengthening counter plates both inside & outside the car - they hadn't fitted either to ours, so it's another thing on the to-do list!

Tweeks list other side mount kits if your seats don't fit the OMP ones.

Edited by keefr22, 30 June 2013 - 09:57 AM.

[rally1380]

I just made up some brackets (similar to those from tweeks) as i'm tight with my wallet.

 

But i must agree with Keith....if you are mounting directly to the floor, make sure you reinforce the floor somehow.....and do it properly.  I didn't, and even though i've never had any issue with scrutineering and the seats are mega secure, i have recently noticed that the floor is slightly deforming where the mounts are.  Over time, i'm sure the mounts will weaken the floor and eventually make a bid for freedom.

 

Sliders are fine and can be done.  I had some Cobra classics on sliders and they mounted to the standard fixings up front but not fixed at the rear so they tipped up.  Sold them on as i wanted full back seats.

 

Proper bars across from sill to exhaust tunnel is the strongest way of doing it, but seeing as you don't want to do that then floor seems the obvious way to go.  Just make sure you do it properly and strong....no point cutting corners with your safety.

[tom1]

Am I right that the blue books says that (2.2.1) The minimum area of contact between support, shell/chassis and counterplate is 40 sq cm for each mounting point. I am just about to weld mine in only thing is they are not 3mm and  don't have a 40 sq cm area ( I have just brought them from a motor sport shop) Is it that the weld in type become part of the chassis and it is the side plates that the rule applies too?

[keefr22]

Am I right that the blue books says that (2.2.1) The minimum area of contact between support, shell/chassis and counterplate is 40 sq cm for each mounting point

That's the way my son & I both read it. And the BlueBook also says this - "2.2.3. The minimum thickness of the supports and counterplates is 3mm for steel and 5mm for light alloy materials".  What we can't find anywhere in the book is that the counterplates do actually have to be welded in. In our Ibiza we've only welded those inside the car in & the scrutineer on the recent hillclimb we did was happy with that - we didn't ask him if he'd have been happy if they weren't welded in at all though. We do have 3 mm counterplates on the outside of the shell, just not welded in.

 

I actually read this rule as only applying to floor mounted seats - as that is what the referred drawing K32 shows - & the seat bars that we've looked at come with weld in mounting plates anyway?

 

Maybe best to give a local scrutineer a ring & check - ours has said he's happy for me to ring him if we have any problems getting it ready for log booking.

Edited by keefr22, 17 July 2013 - 04:46 PM.

[tom1]

Hi Keef, are we saying that if you use the weld in rail type of seat bar, that goes across from sill to tunnel that these two rules don't apply ?  As the rule applies to floor mounted seats ? How do I find my local scrutineer ? 

[Cooperman]

Hi Keef, are we saying that if you use the weld in rail type of seat bar, that goes across from sill to tunnel that these two rules don't apply ?  As the rule applies to floor mounted seats ? How do I find my local scrutineer ? 

Scrutineers are listed in the MSA 'Blue Book'.

[keefr22]

Hi Keef, are we saying that if you use the weld in rail type of seat bar, that goes across from sill to tunnel that these two rules don't apply ? As the rule applies to floor mounted seats ?

As I say that's my interpretation of it - I don't see how it could be possible to fit counterplates to the outside of the sill for example? And it's my understanding that the counterplates are to spread the loading around a bolted fitment?

These are the bars we'll probably be getting. I can't see how you could fit counterplates as per the Blue Book drawing;

http://www.demon-twe...t-subframe-pair
 

How do I find my local scrutineer ? 

Blue Book scrutineer contact details;

http://www.msauk.org...ical_Officials_(Appendix_4f)_1.pdf

Sorry, link doesn't appear to work, they are in Appendix 4f off this link;

http://www.msauk.org...sp?article=1158
HTH
keef

Edited by keefr22, 20 July 2013 - 07:36 PM.

[DEPS]

I just made up some brackets (similar to those from tweeks) as i'm tight with my wallet.
 
But i must agree with Keith....if you are mounting directly to the floor, make sure you reinforce the floor somehow.....and do it properly.  I didn't, and even though i've never had any issue with scrutineering and the seats are mega secure, i have recently noticed that the floor is slightly deforming where the mounts are.  Over time, i'm sure the mounts will weaken the floor and eventually make a bid for freedom.
 
Sliders are fine and can be done.  I had some Cobra classics on sliders and they mounted to the standard fixings up front but not fixed at the rear so they tipped up.  Sold them on as i wanted full back seats.
 
Proper bars across from sill to exhaust tunnel is the strongest way of doing it, but seeing as you don't want to do that then floor seems the obvious way to go.  Just make sure you do it properly and strong....no point cutting corners with your safety.

Just took the seats out of mine that are floor mounted on runners. the rear feet were bolted through a large re-Inforcing plate that is about 4 inches wide and the full width of the floor (tunnel to sill). Whilst this plate seems to have done the job I notice that the floor is deformed in front of the plate and behind! This car has only done a couple of single venue rallies. I think in reality a mini floor is not that strong. I am now seriously considering going the bar direction, although this will necessitate new seats and more expense!

The picture does not really show the undulation, but you may notice a brown line of paint breaking back through the white. This is basically the line of the undulation!

[adamg1380]

Interesting, I think I am going to rethink my seat mounting, mine are just bolted through the floor and although I havn't noticed any deforming from track days & sprints, I really want the seat to stay put if anything nasty happens. I am quite tall and to keep the clearance correct between my helmet and the roll cage I really need the seats as low as possible.

 

Maybe I need bars across but just touching the floor, and then holes in the floor just to get access to bolt the seat to the bars.

[DEPS]

The height of the seat is something that concerns me as well as I am also quite tall.

I was reading the minispares newsletter and a chap who races took his mate round a circuit and seriously rolled it. The passenger ended up with a broken vertebrae in his neck and it was suggested his helmeted head must have been jammed against the roof!! It wold therefore be nice to have the top of your head a couple of inches below the cage, but can this be achieved with the bars?

[rally1380]

Interesting thread.....and we all need to put our safety first in motorsport as when mini's get it wrong it can be nasty.

 

DEPS - How tall are you?

 

I'm 6ft and my seat is positioned so the roll over hoop is behind my seat so shouldn't contact head or helmet.  I'm going to check the helmet to roof/bar measurement though as if i ever did roll it i want to be sure i don't end up wearing the roof skin!!!

 

The big thing for me is to (a) be comfortable and (b) be safe.  And i also don't like sitting very low as i prefer to have decent visibility seeing as my car gets used for rallying.

 

Racing (track stuff) i feel is slightly different as you want the centre of gravity as low as possible and can also get away with not needing soo much visibility seeing as most is gone thanks to a helmet. That, and you are concentrating on whats ahead and not looking around for code boards or dodging cones or sheep in the middle of the night!!!

[adamg1380]

The best bet is to take the seat out, take the subframe off, sit it on the floor behind the crossmember and try it out, that's what I did. You can block it up to see where you want it and then work out if there's room for the bars. Get your head safely below the roll cage and work from there - there are some MSA regs somewhere that say your helmet has to be 1" below your roll cage anyway, which sounds like an absolute minimum for safety.

 

I had very little choice, I'm only just over 6 foot but it's all in the top half, so with my head comfortably under the roll cage (with helmet) the seat is flat on the floor. Unless you're really tall you should have some choice over how long the seat is, and probably just enough room for the bars.

[mini-geek]

Bit of a thread resurrection but.. Can anyone clarify some details on the..

You need the 3mm plates at 40sq cm per corner, but do they have to be on each side if the shell? (Inside and outside) as that would make it 7mm thick including the floor pan... Seems excessive..