14 replies to this topic

[80' Estate]

My 80 clubby has the pre-verto clutch set up, I bought a 1275 from a metro that has the verto clutch without the linkage and slave cylinder ect. Should I swap over my pre-verto components or buy the pieces I need to run the verto?

Thanks

justin

[John H]

For ease and cost I would stick with the pre verto.

[80' Estate]

For ease and cost I would stick with the pre verto.

Thats kinda what I was thinking. Is one really better than the other?

[80' Estate]

oh ok, didnt realize pre verto was cheaper.

 

Is there any performance difference between the two?

[Tamworthbay]

oh ok, didnt realize pre verto was cheaper.
 
Is there any performance difference between the two?

The verto has slightly better 'feel' but not enough to worry about. As said above, stick with pre verto.

[Tamworthbay]

Personally I wouldn't agree with the above, a proper clutch has better feel, the verto's just lighter to press........
But then again if you take the time to set up the non vert clutch correctly it can be just as light in operation.......

It's not so much the weight as the bite point. The pre verto is much more 'digital' in my experience. I don't mind it but I have known inexperienced drivers (my wife was one when she was learning to drive) who prefer the verto feel. A lot comes down to what you want from it, but I think its generally accepted that the verto has a better feel.

[KernowCooper]

Verto would make a better town car for any driver - Mother, Sister, Aunt, non verto for competition and more choice of bits.

[KernowCooper]

Exactly Mother, Sister and Aunt, I have a verto in mine and to be honest Its not as good as a non verto for feel, it just feels wrong compared to the earlier where you knew exactly where you were.

[John H]

Interesting I'd say the opposite, always found it easier balancing the pre verto on hill starts etc than the verto. The vert has greater mechanical advantage over the earlier clutch so don't see how the feel can be better really......... It was after all introduced to make the clutch more weak legs friendly......

The easier to press is true but it was not the sole reason for it's introduction, just one of the Verto's other benefits is reduced the wear on the thrusts.

[Haynes]

I modded my from verto to pre-verto, to take advantage of the avialable lightweight steel flywheel and back plates.  Verto set up is heavier and cant be lightened as much.

[John H]

The above is of course true. How many 7's or Migs run Verto? ;)

 

None obviously.

[Noris8322]

Sorry to dig up an old topic, but there is something that always gets overlooked when people do this conversion

 

Most of the verto setups, especially metro engines, have flywheel ring gear with 129 teeth and uses the later pre-engaged starter motor as the pre-verto clutch setups will use the earlier interia type starter motor and 107 tooth ring gear. 

 

You can use the interia starter with the 129 ring gear but it will be very noisy and shorten the life of the starter bendix and ring gear

 

 

Personally, I would stick with the pre-verto setup. There will be no rewiring and you already have all the parts

[80' Estate]

Sorry to dig up an old topic, but there is something that always gets overlooked when people do this conversion

 

Most of the verto setups, especially metro engines, have flywheel ring gear with 129 teeth and uses the later pre-engaged starter motor as the pre-verto clutch setups will use the earlier interia type starter motor and 107 tooth ring gear. 

 

You can use the interia starter with the 129 ring gear but it will be very noisy and shorten the life of the starter bendix and ring gear

 

 

Personally, I would stick with the pre-verto setup. There will be no rewiring and you already have all the parts

The 1275 I have was actually form a metro, but it came with the starter so there wouldnt be any mix and matching of parts. I think I am going to use the pre verto because I do not have a verto slave cylinder, and a new one is 35!! Thank you for the good info :)

[Ifi]

I came across this "to Verto or not to Verto" item from 2013 quite by accident. For future queries, herewith my twopence worth:-

 

The Verto Clutch system is a considerably more expensive one than the previous system. Since all cars are built with the price/cost in mind, there must have been a pretty sound reason for BMC/Leyland/Rover to have made the change! It is a huge and worthwhile improvement.

 

Prime reason is to greatly lower the pressure on the Crankshaft Thrust Washers on the Flywheel side, as well as Clutch Arm and Plunger. 

In contrast to the original spring/diaphragm system, where the Clutch Diaphragm Pressure leverage is resisted by the very short lower end of the long Clutch Arm, the Verto is able to use a quite short arm, which is because the leverage is now within the diaphragm itself, by the fingers of the said diaphragm. This lowers Pedal Pressure, Crankshaft against Thrust Washer Pressure, and Arm/Plunger pressure.

 

The original system resulted in fair wear to both the ball at the bottom of the Clutch Arm and the Plunger where the Ball contacted it. Not to say that the Verto system doesn't also wear there, but far less and over a far longer period. Not to mention the also rapid wear of the Release Bearing! The Verto Release Bearing seems to last for ages, as against the original system bearings relatively limited life, even if one of the better flat type bearings are installed. 

 

The Pre-engaged Starter Motor is also a far better system. It minimises wear to both Starter Gear (Bendix) and especially Flywheel Ring Gear. It's well worth the effort of extending the cables.

 

For competition use there are companies who can and do modify Pressure Plates in the UK. 

[Ethel]

The A+ initially had the Pre-verto clutch, including in the Metro. The Metro clutch master is a smaller bore than the Mini's & the pedal has more travel. There was also that hydraulic damper, though the more pliant engine mountings likely did more to make power take-up less harsh. 

 

A lot of the A+ developments were to increase the service interval. As the Verto clutch doesn't have a return stop to adjust, I reckon that was also a factor in its introduction. Ironic it turned out to be a bigger PITA to service. Complete, balanced, assemblies had to be offered at one point.

 

Its possible to have either pattern of clutch with either pattern of starter, you just need the corresponding ring gear fitted to the flywheel.

 

It probably is fair to say Verto clutch levers & release bearing are less stressed, but I can't see it making much difference to the crank thrusts as they'll have to provide a reaction force equal to whatever clamping force is on the friction plate.

 

The Pre-verto can be set up so the diaphragm's external forces all but disappear when it's flexed to release. The Verto must do similar, but I can't see it being as easy to get it being as kind to the thrusts with the pedal held down.