15 replies to this topic

[DugganC17]

have been thinking of moving to stage rallying and have raced minis for many years and wandered what classes i could use a mini in and what mods need doing and allowed to be done to the engines or is it better to have something say a micra where parts are more available

 

any help on this would be great and sorry if this has already been covered

Dan

[keefr22]

Probably a good place to start would be this thread;

http://www.theminifo...rallying/page-7

I've linked to page 7 as we started making a list there of parts needed to rally prep a Mini. Of course a stage car will also need to meet the relevant requirements of the Blue Book.

As to what classes you can run in it depends on the age of your car. If it's pre-82 you could prepare it to, & run in Historic events. Or, if it's newer than that you'll need to just prepare it to the Blue Book regs & not worry about keeping it to period spec.. Of course you can still do that to a pre-82 car if you don't want to worry about using the 'correct' period bits. In fact that's what we'll probably do to our 79 Clubbie to get it MSA logbooked (which a stage car also needs doing), but will make sure we don't do anything too outrageous in case we do ever want to build it to Historic specs in the future.

HTH
Keith

[DugganC17]

thanks for that keith i was thinking of going down the historics route with my 80 saloon and do you know what spec the engine has to be for historics ?

[keefr22]

We're still trying to find out to be honest. We have a 1293 with a Weber (I can't remember the rest of the engine spec off the top of my head and my son has it at the moment). We have found out that the works cars used Webers earlier than ours, but have yet to find out whether they were still homologated for a 79 car. It's the problem of homologation periods that we are finding most difficult to sort out. Some people say that if you can find a period publication (such as the oft mentioned Cars and Car Conversions) & use the spec of a rally car in there, then you should be OK. However, my understanding, which was backed up by a short conversation with a local scrutineer, is that if that car was actually built say 5 years before the magazine was published, then the homologation papers for it may have run out! It's a bit of a nightmare, & it may be worth either talking your proposed engine spec over with a local scrutineer (probably best to find the one that would be log booking your car) or contacting someone at the HRCR to get their advice. I was just looking for their technical pages & found this 'starter guide' that I hadn't seen before (& it does clarify that we'd both need an HRCR identity document for our cars - more expense!);

http://www.hrcr.co.u...438_4142974.pdf

This is the technical info for a Category 3 Mini (which has been updated since I last looked & now does say you can use a Weber - so that's one of our problems solved anyway!)

http://www.hrct.co.u...ategory-3-mini/

HTH
Keith

[DugganC17]

Thanks for the link but the starter guide is for road rallies only as far as I can see is there one on special stage rallies and by any chance you haven't got link to regs for rallying (non historic specs )

Cheers and Soz for all the questions haha

[rally1380]

The person you need to speak to is Cooperman on here....as he has done quite a bit (loads really) of historic stage rallying in a mini.  Rob Jones does alot of stage rallying (non historic) too.  Both are mega nice guys and very helpful.

 

One thing i can add (although i'm doing historic road rallying at the minute) is your tyre choice is very limited.  If you are pre 68 in cat 1 you have one tyre choice really...and in cat 2 you can up that to a choice of two.....both maxsports.

 

What are your plans and what age car have you got?

[DugganC17]

I use maxsport tyres at the moment and I have a 1980 mini which is only just into historics which is why I thought of doing normal rallying first which is more lenient so I here and then move to historics in the future with more experience

[rally1380]

I use maxsport tyres at the moment and I have a 1980 mini which is only just into historics which is why I thought of doing normal rallying first which is more lenient so I here and then move to historics in the future with more experience

 

You can pretty much do anything with a 80 car...historics, normal, road, stage etc etc.   Cat 3 is a bit of a funny one as don't you need homologation papers?  Think they are extending historic road rally classes to 1985 soon...so hello mk2 golf's and pug 205's!!!

 

 

In answer to your question on your very first post "If you'd be better off with a micra?".....honestly....you probably would, but if your heart is in doing a mini then go for it.  I've road rallied my 71 clubman, and on certain sections of events it felt fine and on the pace, but I have have got something more modern to replace it, and will use the mini solely for historic stuff from now on...unless i get the itch! (or crash the other car!!!!)

[DugganC17]

thanks gor that do you know what class a 998 would in and what be up against in stage rallying

Dan

[rally1380]

By the looks of it.....because you are in cat 3 you are in the up to 1300cc class.  So anything from Hilman Imps, to Mini's, to 1300 escorts i reckon

 

If you can find an up to 1000cc class you will be up against Imps which are quick!!!

 

Check out the HRCR website for the championships they run and the regulations attached to them.  There are of course other championships and local clubs who run historic stuff too. 

 

http://www.hrcr.co.uk/

 

 

In my opinion, unless massively tuned, a 998 will be seriously out gunned.  But if you drive it like you stole it and have a laugh doing it then the best of luck to ya...i'll be rooting for you anyway.

 

Don't dismiss the HRCR Clubman championship though.  It may well be daytime and on open roads with tricky regularity sections, but the special tests are fantastic!!!  I've driven on the Tour of Cheshire this year (won my class) and the tests where varied and great fun (disussed runway, farm tracks, flooded tile works etc etc). Then a few weeks back i navigated on my first event (again won my class) which was the Ross Traders in south wales.  This event was mega!!!!  The regularity stuff was a real brain ache (but thats the nav's problem!) but the tests were great. The first two where on forest tracks and again rough and exactly like proper stages, just with coned chicanes to slow you down....they use this forest on the Wyedean rally i think. Then we did several runs around Chepstow race courses gravel infield tracks...again awesome fun!!!!

 

This isn't a you must do this rant....but they are very good value for money and you get a full days sport without needing to mega prep your car.  Also, your 998 won't be out gunned quite so much as alot of the points are won or lost on the regularities.  My plan has always been to prep my car for stages so i can do that in the future if funds allow, but compete in the clubman championship as its great fun, social and cheap (compared to stage stuff!)

 

Anyhoo....check these photos out and see what you think.....(i'm in the orange Triumph Dolly Sprint)

 

http://www.daisyroot...2013/index.html

 

Also...where abouts are you based?

[DugganC17]

Yeah just been looking and will have to look down the 1275 route and more likely bored to 1293 to get that last bit out of it as like you said I would be out gunned against the 1.3 escorts and such

And will look into those daytime rallies sound alright but have always been a fan of stage rallies and thrashing through a forest flat out and I'm based near Leominster in Herefordshire

[jaydee]

Unless you're allowed to turbo it, you need a big bore engine.

First engine i built for the rally car was a nippy 998 for the up-to-1000cc class, but most of the times theres no cars in the class so you'll end up in the 1300cc class..

by nippy i mean barely drivable in the forest and the gravel

Ended up 1st in class in an autosolo test once and was 6 secs slower than fastest time in up-to-1300 modified class

i've found out over here in historical road rallying makes no difference if youre running a 998 or a 1275, but on stage rallying theres a chance you'll be outgunned by fast cars even with a 1275, let alone a 998

[DugganC17]

thanks but i think a well tuned 1293 with good head and box would be ample good enough for what i want and should get me into middle of the pack

[keefr22]

Yeah just been looking and will have to look down the 1275 route and more likely bored to 1293 to get that last bit out of it as like you said I would be out gunned against the 1.3 escorts and such

We've just managed to find the homologation papers that the HRCR site says Cat 3 Minis have to be built to (paper no. 5405);

http://mk1-performan...omo-clubman.pdf

Unfortunately this appears to show that only 998 or 1275 capacity can be used. Which is a bit of a swine as ours is 1293....

However, I'm still confused by this business about if things were used in period & documentation can be found then they can be used. I don't know if that will overide the homologation papers? I'm sure 1293's must have been used back in the day...

[keefr22]

(or crash the other car!!!!)

Don't you dare..!!!