7 replies to this topic

[burnz24]

Hello people, I. Currently in the process of a 16v vauxhall concversionon the mini.
Now the mini is a 1988 city e and the new engine is a 1598cc x16xe.
I have 3 questions
1- Will the car have to have a cat? The car itself does not require one but the car the engine is from does.. So where do I stand with this.
2- I'm toying with bike carbs or twin webers for the engine as I've always wanted that sort of set up however (this is kind of linked with the cat question) will the car pass the emissions test? How will they test it? Will the benchmark be for the age of car or ag of engine?
3- will the car require and IVA test, the only thing on the whole car that is modified will be the subframe/engine and driveshafts (they will be one piece though). And would this answer change if the frame was of my own design or allspeeds..

I'm well aware I may have just opened up a can of worms but have tried searching the Internet and the forum and am getting conflicting answers from everywhere.
P.s. mods if this is in the wrong forum, feel free to move it.

[M J W J]

If the car originally had a cat fitted then yes it will need one. Being a 1998 city E I doubt that it had one. It doesn't require the factory one fitted, it just needs a cat fitted.

 

Your emissions are based on which is older, the car or the engine fitted although if it is chucking out loads of visible smoke they can still fail it.

 

Your car shouldn't need an IVA for just an engine swap. Just don't modify the body shell and you will be safe.

[burnz24]

See that's what I thought about the emissions, so basically with a cat, if it didn't have one, never will?
And if I understand the IVA correctly then even if I have to have one wont I still have enough of a 'standard'car left to pass it?

[Carlos W]

• chassis or body shell (body and chassis as one unit - monocoque ie direct replacement from the manufacturer) (original or new) = 5 points
• suspension = 2 points
• axles = 2 points
• transmission = 2 points
• steering assembly = 2 points
• engine = 1 point

 

You're aiming for 8 points, although, I don't know the definition of axles when it comes to minis

 

Also. the 8 points must include 5 from the shell

[AVV IT]

As above, if the car doesn't require a CAT (which a 1988 model doesn't), then it doesn't require a CAT to be fitted, even if fitted with a later engine that had a CAT originally.

 

From MOT inspectors handbook:

"- Vehicles Fitted with a different engine

Test according to which is older, engine or vehicle.
e.g. A 1995 car fitted with a 1991 engine (of whatever make), test to 1991 standards for emissions purposes."

 

 

If the car originally had a cat fitted then yes it will need one. 

 

 

This isn't actually the case and has been covered here a few times now. Unfortunately though, there appears to have been a fairly widespread misinterpretation of the change in regulations that came into effect last year. (even amongst MOT inspectors!!  )

All the new rules actually say is :

"On vehicles that qualify for a full cat emissions test, check the presence of the catalytic converter."

and with the reason for failure then listed as being:

"A catalytic converter missing where one was fitted as standard"


So the tester is only supposed to to check for the presence of a catalytic converter where one was fitted as standard,if the car is actually eligible for a full CAT emissions test, in the first place, which no carb mini actually is!! (that is assuming that it was a carb mini as standard and not fuel injection model that has been converted to carb).

The only classic minis that require a full CAT emmsions test are those first used after 31/07/1995 (with the last carb model being produced in 1994) and also those 92-95 models with following engine numbers: (all of which are fuel injection)

Mini Model Code XN:

1.3l Auto TBi Engine Code X Serial No 059845 onwards
1.3l Manual TBi Engine Code X Serial No 059822 onwards
1.3l TBi Engine Code Y Serial No 060488 onwards
1.3l MPi Engine Code Z

All others require a Non Cat Test (i.e. - CO <= 3.5% HC <= 1200ppm) and therefore the inspector does not have to check for the presence of a CAT, regardless of whether one was fitted as standard or not.

[burnz24]

AVV IT, that clears the emissions/CAT thing up for me cheers, and if you have got that from the MOT book then it's clear cut right?
With regards to the IVA then I make it..
Shell - 5 points as its It's unmodified
Engine - 0 points as its not standard
Suspension - 2 points as its standard (performance spec but normal mini)
Axle - 0 points as i wouldsay this is the subframes of which the front is cut and welded?
Steering - 2 points as its normal mini
Transmission - this is the one im confused about as the transmission is standard but to the engine not to the car? Also the driveshafts, although one piece, are not standard?

The above is of course if it even gets called for one?
Guess ill just build it to pass one then wait and see when i register it with the dvla.

[IainStallard]

As above, if the car doesn't require a CAT (which a 1988 model doesn't), then it doesn't require a CAT to be fitted, even if fitted with a later engine that had a CAT originally.

 

From MOT inspectors handbook:

"- Vehicles Fitted with a different engine

Test according to which is older, engine or vehicle.
e.g. A 1995 car fitted with a 1991 engine (of whatever make), test to 1991 standards for emissions purposes."

 

 

If the car originally had a cat fitted then yes it will need one. 

 

 

This isn't actually the case and has been covered here a few times now. Unfortunately though, there appears to have been a fairly widespread misinterpretation of the change in regulations that came into effect last year. (even amongst MOT inspectors!!  )

All the new rules actually say is :

"On vehicles that qualify for a full cat emissions test, check the presence of the catalytic converter."

and with the reason for failure then listed as being:

"A catalytic converter missing where one was fitted as standard"


So the tester is only supposed to to check for the presence of a catalytic converter where one was fitted as standard,if the car is actually eligible for a full CAT emissions test, in the first place, which no carb mini actually is!! (that is assuming that it was a carb mini as standard and not fuel injection model that has been converted to carb).

The only classic minis that require a full CAT emmsions test are those first used after 31/07/1995 (with the last carb model being produced in 1994) and also those 92-95 models with following engine numbers: (all of which are fuel injection)

Mini Model Code XN:

1.3l Auto TBi Engine Code X Serial No 059845 onwards
1.3l Manual TBi Engine Code X Serial No 059822 onwards
1.3l TBi Engine Code Y Serial No 060488 onwards
1.3l MPi Engine Code Z

All others require a Non Cat Test (i.e. - CO <= 3.5% HC <= 1200ppm) and therefore the inspector does not have to check for the presence of a CAT, regardless of whether one was fitted as standard or not.

I'm confused at the engine serial number. Mines a 1995 spi manual with engine number 12A2DJ01317430 so does that mean it needs a full CAT emissions test?

[AVV IT]

As far as I'm aware all fuel injection models require a full CAT emissions test & therefore the presence of a CAT. Presumably yours is one of those first used after 31/07/95, and therefore the engine number doesn't appear on the list above.

(Details of engine no.12A2DJ01317430 = Mini A+ 1275, 9:4:1 compression ratio, Catalyst)