10 replies to this topic

[Stimpy]

There WAS A bit of drama on Fri night as my wife + 4 y/o we're stranded near a park in my '66 Elf. And her phone battery ran out/

 

Anyway - I tried to get over on the description of a flatt battery so i took a detour via home (this was from work) to get the stuff (booster/ leads etc)  Then I noticed my tyre was flat so i had to pump that bloody thing up before the rescue mission.

 

Got to the car - lights worked bright / horn horned / etc - and so a 'uh oh'.

 

No amount of jumping or boostering was going to get that car going - it just dimmed dash lights and made a soft knock at the time of starting- so we jumped it into life.

 

On the way down the (Marlow) Hill (H Wyc) I turned the engine off and on.  I did this about 20 times to try to recreate the problem.  It worked every time - in what was a bit of a 'soak testig.

 

 Igot home and onto the driveway.  With all the electric  on I STIL failed to get thecident back

 

 

Does anyone suggestions please

[freaker]

if i read this correct, the car would start when push starting but not on the key ?

 

freaker

[bpirie1000]

Dodge starter?

[Vipernoir]

Solenoid or a duff sector in the starter motor.

 

I had a very old starter in my first Elf that wouldn't move at all in a certain position.  Flick the end to spin it and it was fine, just meant popping the bonnet every so often.

[bpirie1000]

Cold rock the car whilst in gear usually clears it also...

[Vipernoir]

Not with an intertia starter it won't.

[Stimpy]

Firstly - apologies for posting a message in a language yet to be discovered by humankind - that'll teach me for posting when half asleep.

 

Right - the points were....

 

Elf ok. Wife driving it with son in tow

Elf parked - wife+child go to one of those soft play things

Wife+child finish at soft play and get into Riley

Starter does nothing but very gentle click.

 

I arrive from work - an hour later - in my Honda Civic then on to rescue family.  I've brought a booster plus jump leads

No electrical attempt at starting Elf worked.

Lights were bright - horn works etc - ie battery ok

Tried the rocking thing. No result.

 

Fortunately you only have to breath on the Elf engine for it to start so a short push at 2mph and a 3rd gear bump start gets it going.

 

On the drive home I test the starter over and over and over and cannot recreate the issue.  I deliberately leave a load of electrical things on with engine off - just to annoy the battery - and it still starts on a touch of the key.

 

Thanks for the responses so far but one especially interests me a bit - 'flick the end to spin it' - how does one do that?  I remember something about attacking a starter with a rubber mallet used to be a good idea 'in the old days' but can't remember what to bash or why.  If there's something I can do that just needs popping the bonnet then I'm very interested in case it happens again so any more info would be gratefully appreciated

 

Cheers all!

 

Steve

[Vipernoir]

On the ancient starter I'm referring to, there was a small square sticking out of the end behind the electrical connector - the end of the rotor.  As the starter had a duff winding, if it stopped int he wrong place it wouldn't turn, so flicking it round a bit engaged a differeent sector and allowed normal starting.

Having braved the downpour to look at two of the cars on the drive, if you remove the rubber cover on the end of the starter there is a small square sticking out.

[dklawson]

As above, probably a problem starter or the solenoid.  

 

As built the Elf probably had the round solenoid with the manual start pushbutton.  If you have one of those and it is original, great.  If you have an aftermarket "new" replacement it is likely to fail in short order.  Whoever is making them has terrible quality control.  If you have a new reproduction round solenoid, give up on originality and fit the later square brick solenoid which is both more reliable AND can have its rivets drilled out to disassemble and clean the contacts (replacing the rivets with machine screws for re-assembly).  

 

If the problem lies in the starter motor, the problem may re-occur when the motor stops in the "right position" as mentioned above.  A small adjustable wrench can be used to turn the motor as Vipernoir mentioned.  It's easy to do so it is worth showing your Mrs. where it is and what to do.  A cheap wrench in the boot or door pocket might just get her going quickly next time without much delay.

[Stimpy]

On the ancient starter I'm referring to, there was a small square sticking out of the end behind the electrical connector - the end of the rotor.  As the starter had a duff winding, if it stopped int he wrong place it wouldn't turn, so flicking it round a bit engaged a differeent sector and allowed normal starting.

Having braved the downpour to look at two of the cars on the drive, if you remove the rubber cover on the end of the starter there is a small square sticking out.

Oh Lordy - you braved the crap weather for me?  I really appreciate that.

 

Today has turned out a bit of a disaster

I was going to take my Stag for a new soft top but ended up almost hospitalized due to chest pains and spasms - how's that for a delightful day?

I'm so thankful that - in contrast - you've helped me out despite the weather.  I hope I can help you out some time.

[Stimpy]

As above, probably a problem starter or the solenoid.  

 

As built the Elf probably had the round solenoid with the manual start pushbutton.  If you have one of those and it is original, great.  If you have an aftermarket "new" replacement it is likely to fail in short order.  Whoever is making them has terrible quality control.  If you have a new reproduction round solenoid, give up on originality and fit the later square brick solenoid which is both more reliable AND can have its rivets drilled out to disassemble and clean the contacts (replacing the rivets with machine screws for re-assembly).  

 

If the problem lies in the starter motor, the problem may re-occur when the motor stops in the "right position" as mentioned above.  A small adjustable wrench can be used to turn the motor as Vipernoir mentioned.  It's easy to do so it is worth showing your Mrs. where it is and what to do.  A cheap wrench in the boot or door pocket might just get her going quickly next time without much delay.

As a few more details - the Riley is a mk II and has the ignition off the key in the centre.  It has a magic wand gearstick and footpedal main beam (why don't they do that in modern cars? Thats such a safety benefit).

I'm the 2nd driver (3rd owner - the second owner simply restored the body).  Everything is original except 1)an alternator and 2)negative earth.  I treat it like a baby - oil change every 2000 miles and all that,

The insurance company upped my bill when they wrote to me to say the car had appreciated too much to have a £66 bill fully comp.  Good news in disguise! 

 

I had to tell my friend that the Riley Elf gets more attention from people than his wacky BMW M5.  I think some blokes don't 'get it' when it comes to vehicle appreciation.

Sorry to the BMW owners out there!

 

And thanks again for all your help.  It's been started about 30 times since 'the incidence' however having the info you all described might come in handy at some point (but hopefully not, as it were).

Right - back to the pain killers and numb brain.....