42 replies to this topic

[dklawson]

Redboy, you said that the car was started somewhat regularly over the past year while in storage but now it won't start.  

 

The following comments are based on the assumption that up until this recent failure to start you did nothing (absolutely nothing) to the car/engine.  

 

If you didn't do anything to the car prior to its last start, you are not going to have a sudden air leak.  The plug wires may have failed from dry rot but none of the other ignition parts should have gone bad.  On page one you said you checked for spark on one plug and clearly at some point it appears you changed the plug wires.  Confirm you have spark on all the plugs and make sure you have not upset the firing order (wires arranged 1-3-4-2 Counterclockwise around the cap with plug #1 being the one at the water pump end of the block). 

 

Again, assuming nothing was touched on the fuel adjustments, that you have spark and that the firing order is correct, return your attention to fuel.  In an earlier post you did mention the plus were dry.  As suggested earlier, tip a thimble of fuel into the carb throat, then try starting the engine.  If the engine runs very briefly and dies, look for fuel delivery problems.  This can easily be caused by fuel gum/varnish causing a float valve to stick closed... like when a car is in storage. 

 

You had the engine started on the 26th but now it won't start again.  I suggest you don't spend any money on the ColorTune or other parts until you try the thimble of gas.  Items related to setting the mixture may not be necessary if this a restricted fuel supply issue as Dusky suggested on the previous page.

Edited by dklawson, 01 March 2014 - 02:12 PM.

[Stu.]

 

I may be a little controversial here - but what’s with the fascination with spraying WD40 on everything? There are two starting threads currently running on here and both have the same suggestion, neither made a difference.  I've never tried it and never felt the need to when trying to find a starting problem. If it's not starting there usually something pretty basic wrong and even with a gaping vacuum leak

 

The reason people suggest spraying WD-40 is not to fix anything but to find vacuum leaks.  I don't know why or when people started saying to use WD-40.  The old school method was to use spray starting fluid (ether).  This can be somewhat dangerous in proximity to hot exhaust but certainly is known to work.  An acquaintance of mine uses an unlit propane torch instead.  Just like with the sprays, passing propane around the intake manifold will cause the engine RPM to change if an intake leak is present.

 

 

 

And to take it one further - we ran an A-series with no carb, just pouring a trickle of fuel into the manifold from a jam jar!

 

 

Though you were doing this to run the engine, this is largely the same test as dumping a thimble of fuel into the carb throat to determine if you have a fuel supply problem.  It definitely works as a screening test.

 

Thanks for that Doug. I started used WD-40 because it was what I had to hand and it worked as a temporary gap sealer to confirm a vac leak. 

 

It's a very easy, quick and cheap way to rule out a leak on troublesome starting and running issues, which is why I suggest it in posts. One guy recently found a hairline crack in the carb spacer which was the cause of his issues. 

[redboy]

Redboy, you said that the car was started somewhat regularly over the past year while in storage but now it won't start.  
 
The following comments are based on the assumption that up until this recent failure to start you did nothing (absolutely nothing) to the car/engine.  
 
If you didn't do anything to the car prior to its last start, you are not going to have a sudden air leak.  The plug wires may have failed from dry rot but none of the other ignition parts should have gone bad.  On page one you said you checked for spark on one plug and clearly at some point it appears you changed the plug wires.  Confirm you have spark on all the plugs and make sure you have not upset the firing order (wires arranged 1-3-4-2 Counterclockwise around the cap with plug #1 being the one at the water pump end of the block). 
 
Again, assuming nothing was touched on the fuel adjustments, that you have spark and that the firing order is correct, return your attention to fuel.  In an earlier post you did mention the plus were dry.  As suggested earlier, tip a thimble of fuel into the carb throat, then try starting the engine.  If the engine runs very briefly and dies, look for fuel delivery problems.  This can easily be caused by fuel gum/varnish causing a float valve to stick closed... like when a car is in storage. 
 
You had the engine started on the 26th but now it won't start again.  I suggest you don't spend any money on the ColorTune or other parts until you try the thimble of gas.  Items related to setting the mixture may not be necessary if this a restricted fuel supply issue as Dusky suggested on the previous page.

Cheers mate. What I've done today is took the lights and grill off to get to the dizzy cap and took that off to have a look.

The pins on the cap have got decent size groves in them and were a bit dirty, as was the arm. Took a bit of wd40 and wire wool and cleaned them up, refitted.

Tried all the plugs the other day and they were all sparking. Plugs and leads are pretty new.

I've bought some fresh fuel and I poured a little down the throat of the carb. Pulled the choke out, turned the key and bruuuum bruuuuum :) on the first turn over.

I've kept it running for for about 30mins now to burn off the old fuel which the needle is right on the red now. I'm just going to fill it with new fuel and leave it running another 5 mins to get the new fuel through.

After this I'll try again tomorrow and see if it starts from cold again without tipping fuel into the carb.

I am noticing that the idle revs are going up and down slightly so might have to look into that.

[Stu.]

For the cost of them you're probably best renewing the dizzy cap an arm anyway. Let us know how you get on tomorrow. 

[dklawson]

This is a cautionary note for those reading this thread in the future.  You can indeed clean some of the ignition parts with steel wool but exercise caution when/if you do this.  You must make every effort to not scratch the plastic insulator parts (rotor body and inside of cap).  Seemingly insignificant small scratches can be channels for electricity when the humidity is "right".  This is also the reason why you should replace caps and rotors anytime you notice craze cracks or carbon tracks on the surface.  Anything that is not surface dirt that can be wiped away should be a flag that the part may short the spark from plug to plug or to earth.

 

Do let us know how the car starts tomorrow.  

[redboy]

will do chaps. Im deffo replacing the cap, arm and probably the coil as it seems the original. only cleaned it up today to give the best contact it could have but didnt know about the scratching thing so thanks.

 

Would it be worth spraying gt85 in the dizzy cap and arm? as when it dries it leaves a coating of PTFE to repel water.

[Stu.]

Not sure about the gt 40 myself, I'm pretty sure it would help to keep moisture away from the contact points. When I got my mini started after it'd been in a garage for 8 years I managed to get it was running more or less ok with the existing dizzy cap, arm and HT leads. Once I renewed them for new the difference in idling and general running improved dramatically.

[redboy]

To be honest after I put the new fuel in and ran it through it seemed to be idling better. We'll see what happens tomorrow anyway.

[Icey]

 

I may be a little controversial here - but what’s with the fascination with spraying WD40 on everything? There are two starting threads currently running on here and both have the same suggestion, neither made a difference.  I've never tried it and never felt the need to when trying to find a starting problem. If it's not starting there usually something pretty basic wrong and even with a gaping vacuum leak

 

The reason people suggest spraying WD-40 is not to fix anything but to find vacuum leaks.  I don't know why or when people started saying to use WD-40.  The old school method was to use spray starting fluid (ether).  This can be somewhat dangerous in proximity to hot exhaust but certainly is known to work.  An acquaintance of mine uses an unlit propane torch instead.  Just like with the sprays, passing propane around the intake manifold will cause the engine RPM to change if an intake leak is present.

 

 

 

And to take it one further - we ran an A-series with no carb, just pouring a trickle of fuel into the manifold from a jam jar!

 

 

Though you were doing this to run the engine, this is largely the same test as dumping a thimble of fuel into the carb throat to determine if you have a fuel supply problem.  It definitely works as a screening test.

 

 

Good reply that, everything has it's place as a diagnostic tool. I find that this technical section (like most single-make forums that have a large user base) has a lot of regurgitated information and the 'spray WD40 on it' along with 'it must be old fuel' are two that get rather repetitive when most of the time it's something more fundamental.

 

If anyone has taken offence, don't, it's nothing personal.

[dklawson]

No offense taken and I understand your frustration with repeated information.  

 

Redboy and Stu, I would limit any surface protectants to the outside of the cap, not inside.  Coatings like Teflon (PTFE) are good for lubricity but they are not necessarily what you want on contact surfaces (like the terminals inside the dizzy cap) since PTFE is also a high-dielectric material.  If moisture gets inside the dizzy cap, it is still going to condense on the surfaces anyway (albeit in small droplets) and even with the PTFE and 

 

Also, don't replace the coil if you don't have to.  In general coils either work or don't.  If the coil is leaking oil, if you experience misfires and strange engine behavior when the engine is hot, or if you experience misfires and running problems with the engine at high-speed (all combined with weird tachometer behavior)... then replace the coil.  Coils are an expensive component to replace just because they are old.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[redboy]

Cheers, that's what I wanted to know about the coil, if there something that wears or like you say something that works or dosnt.

I must admit though While holding the revs up it keeps giving a slight pop about every 5 seconds.

Think I'm going to sort the oil, filter, new coolant, dizzy cap, arm, new top engine steady (got about 1" play back & forth).

After this I'll take it for a MOT, cross my fingers and pray.

[redboy]

Ok, pulled choke out fully, tuned key and after about 3 attempts to fire up it started :)

[dklawson]

Very good!  

 

If you have a tach, keep an eye on it when you anticipate the "pop" you mentioned.  Problems with the coil low-tension circuit will show up as blips in the tach behavior.  However, that does not necessarily mean the coil is bad.  Start by looking for connection problems.  If the distributor uses points, clean and adjust them and fit a new condenser.  Always try the cheap stuff first.

 

Popping as you describe it could be a misfire or a backfire.  Backfires can be fuel or ignition related.  If your ignition timing is set correctly backfires (particularly out the carb) are typically the result of lean conditions (bad mixture setting or some form of blockage in fuel delivery).