33 replies to this topic

[maccers]

I've had to do an on the spot test twice in the past year - mine is retro fitted injection with just an RC40 twin box and came away fine both times, so I suppose removing a cat after the MOT might cause some problems on one of these side of the road tests?

[Guess-Works.com]

To be honest, a decat pipe does not really add anything, other than removing what is possibly a knackered cat anyway...

[Gillybobs]

I have just bought a 1993 italian job mini. There doesn't apear to be a cat on the car but from what's being said here it doesn't need on as it a carb car.

I ll post a link to the regs but can someone show me the exemption for carb cars in them? I ve looked through section 7 but I cant see it.

 

http://www.motester....ivate_guide.pdf

[surfblue63]

 

If it left the factory with a cat, then at the next MOT it needs to be presented with a cat fitted, without its a straight fail.

It's only a straight fail if the car was fitted with a CAT when it left the factory AND the car is required to pass a full CAT emissions test. (Which only fuel injection models are). If the car isn't required to pass a full CAT emissions test (which no carb mini is), then according to the MOT regs the tester isn't required to check for the presence of a catalytic converter in the first place.

I have had this verified by three different MOT inspectors and my decated 93 carb model, had passed every MOT since the change in regs about the need for a CAT if one was fitted as standard was brought in. The change in regs has been widely misinterpreted though (even amongst MOT inspectors) so you need to find an MOT inspector who understands how the regs need to be applied to older cars.

 

 

My '93 carb Sprite has passed without a CAT for the last 5 years. The year before that it failed due to having sealed beams, or I should say the tester tried to fail it because he thought the beam pattern was wrong. I sent him to check his manual as he was obviously expecting an asymmetrical beam pattern and was not familiar with the candle that Rover used to fit. Needless to say I never went back to that tester.

 

Always try to find an MOT tester that is sympathetic to classic cars.

Edited by surfblue63, 05 March 2014 - 08:53 PM.

[surfblue63]

I have just bought a 1993 italian job mini. There doesn't apear to be a cat on the car but from what's being said here it doesn't need on as it a carb car.

I ll post a link to the regs but can someone show me the exemption for carb cars in them? I ve looked through section 7 but I cant see it.

 

http://www.motester....ivate_guide.pdf

 

The carb Minis built after August 1992 do not appear in the In-Service Emissions Book. As they do not appear in the book then they are exempt from the CAT test. The only Minis that are in the In-Service Emissions book are Spi and Mpi cars. This is denoted by their chassis number.

Edited by surfblue63, 05 March 2014 - 09:02 PM.

[Gillybobs]

So your talking about this document

 https://www.gov.uk/g...7th_Edition.pdf

 

On page 90 there are the mg rover cars. As you say they are only stating 13i minis . (page 93)

 

Mini Model Code XN 1.3l Auto TBi Engine Code X Serial No 059845 onwards 1.3l Manual TBi Engine Code X Serial No 059822 onwards 1.3l TBi Engine Code Y Serial No 060488 onwards 1.3l MPi Engine Code Z

[grumpy2]

I have an mpi. My tester knows it was fitted with a cat from new and expects it to be fitted for the test. He also knows I put it on a week before the test and remove it straight after. The car runs smoother with the standard exhaust and cat but sounds much better with the fletcher 2 inch no cat pipe.

My tester is also well respected amongst the classic car community and tests my stag and many other classics in the clubs I'm in.

I don't have a definitive answer but simply relate my own experience

Cheers

[surfblue63]

So your talking about this document

 https://www.gov.uk/g...7th_Edition.pdf

 

On page 90 there are the mg rover cars. As you say they are only stating 13i minis . (page 93)

 

Mini Model Code XN 1.3l Auto TBi Engine Code X Serial No 059845 onwards 1.3l Manual TBi Engine Code X Serial No 059822 onwards 1.3l TBi Engine Code Y Serial No 060488 onwards 1.3l MPi Engine Code Z

 

 

Yes that's the one, and as it says in the MOT manual there must be an exact match, which for carb MInis there is not, thus they do not require a CAT test.

[cradley-heathen]

i was under the impression that a car didnt have to have a cat, but it did have to be able to pass the emisions test?

 

i have made a de-cat pipe for someone before that was basically an old cat, with all the guts taken out from a hole cut in the top, then a pipe welded inside to make it straight through, and then the top welding back in again, from underneath it looked just like a cat. that was on an escort rs2000 though (mk5/6 ish shape)

 

the mot station i use doesnt do emisions tests on any minis that i take up there, and im not talking about cars old enough for the "can you read the number plate through the smoke" test.

 

strictly speaking i think your car can fail its mot on things hanging from the rear view mirror, but what the point in failing it as they know your only going to put your fluffy dice/magictree/chav boxing glove/g.f. undies back up as soon as you leave the station.

 

as someone else said, find a station that is sympathetic to classic cars.

[AVV IT]

i was under the impression that a car didnt have to have a cat, but it did have to be able to pass the emisions test?

I beleive that was the case up until the change in regs back in 2012. Until that point those vehicles required to pass a full CAT emissions test, didn't actually need to be fitted with a CAT, their emissions just needed to be below a certain level to do so. In 2012 the regs changed for vehicles required to pass the CAT emissions test, making it necessary for a CAT to actually be present if one was fitted as standard.

Unfortunately this requirement was widely misinterpreted and taken out of context, and many people took it to mean that a CAT was required to be fitted to any vehicle that left the factory with one, regardless of which emissions test it was actually required to pass.

[tiger99]

If the Mini had a carb originally, it would not have had a cat, because no carb can maintain a sufficiently accurate mixture to avoid damaging the cat. That is the only reason that injection became compulsory. So if your car, of any sort, has always had carb(s) it should not have, and certainly does not need, a cat for the MOT. And yes, the MOT rules seem confusing, but that is the basis behind what is supposed to happen, and why no car of any sort manufactured after the cut-off date will have come out of the factory with a carb, and will need a cat.

 

It would be most helpful if people were prepared to take a few moments to mention MOT testing stations here who are well experienced with classic cars, and Minis in particular. Perhaps there could be a pinned list on the Forum somewhere, for quick reference in the future?

 

I strongly object to people fitting a decat pipe, except for the MOT. It is downright irresponsible, as well as being criminal. Blatant disregard of the law like that is the kind of thing that gets the Mini community a very bad name in certain quarters, and will ultimately lead to a total ban on modifying classic cars. Be assured that Mercedes, who were behind the ban in Germany and some other EU countries, will already be lobbying the UK government. Please do not give them ammunition by operating your Minis illegally in any way, or action is sure to follow that none of us will like.

[AVV IT]

A number of minis left the factory with CAT's fitted as standard though. Rover fitted them to all the HIF38 carbed 1275 models between 92-94 (I.e the Sprite, Rio, Tahiti, Italian job etc).

[DomCr250]

If the Mini had a carb originally, it would not have had a cat, because no carb can maintain a sufficiently accurate mixture to avoid damaging the cat. That is the only reason that injection became compulsory. So if your car, of any sort, has always had carb(s) it should not have, and certainly does not need, a cat for the MOT. And yes, the MOT rules seem confusing, but that is the basis behind what is supposed to happen, and why no car of any sort manufactured after the cut-off date will have come out of the factory with a carb, and will need a cat.

 

It would be most helpful if people were prepared to take a few moments to mention MOT testing stations here who are well experienced with classic cars, and Minis in particular. Perhaps there could be a pinned list on the Forum somewhere, for quick reference in the future?

 

I strongly object to people fitting a decat pipe, except for the MOT. It is downright irresponsible, as well as being criminal. Blatant disregard of the law like that is the kind of thing that gets the Mini community a very bad name in certain quarters, and will ultimately lead to a total ban on modifying classic cars. Be assured that Mercedes, who were behind the ban in Germany and some other EU countries, will already be lobbying the UK government. Please do not give them ammunition by operating your Minis illegally in any way, or action is sure to follow that none of us will like.

Wrong - rover built early CAT equipped minis with carbs, it caused massive issues when they initially came up for a test at the 3 year point.

[cradley-heathen]

If the Mini had a carb originally, it would not have had a cat, because no carb can maintain a sufficiently accurate mixture to avoid damaging the cat. That is the only reason that injection became compulsory. So if your car, of any sort, has always had carb(s) it should not have, and certainly does not need, a cat for the MOT. And yes, the MOT rules seem confusing, but that is the basis behind what is supposed to happen, and why no car of any sort manufactured after the cut-off date will have come out of the factory with a carb, and will need a cat.

 

It would be most helpful if people were prepared to take a few moments to mention MOT testing stations here who are well experienced with classic cars, and Minis in particular. Perhaps there could be a pinned list on the Forum somewhere, for quick reference in the future?

 

I strongly object to people fitting a decat pipe, except for the MOT. It is downright irresponsible, as well as being criminal. Blatant disregard of the law like that is the kind of thing that gets the Mini community a very bad name in certain quarters, and will ultimately lead to a total ban on modifying classic cars. Be assured that Mercedes, who were behind the ban in Germany and some other EU countries, will already be lobbying the UK government. Please do not give them ammunition by operating your Minis illegally in any way, or action is sure to follow that none of us will like.

with respect, i will keep the name of the MOT station to myself, as in one paragraph you ask for the name of the garage, then in the next paragraph your talking about legalities of fitting a cat just for the MOT?

 

surely someone such as yourself, who clearly takes the law very seriously wouldnt want to use an mot station that might be sympathetic to classics? you cant have it both ways