8 replies to this topic

[Mini Adam 85]

This may be a silly question but here goes I have a set of billet alloy rear hubs and some superfins but the alloy hubs don't have any threaded holes to allow the counter sunk screw that holds the drum to the hub is this normal? Also as they are alloy hubs do we still tighten the castellated nut upto 60lb/ft?Sorry if it has been covered before I did do some research but couldn't find much

Edited by Mini Adam 85, 26 February 2014 - 07:09 PM.

[Gremlin]

The countersunk screw doesn't really do a lot anyway, the drum is held on by the wheel studs, I can't answer what torque setting for the castellated nut but I saw a a guy turning the nut round about a quarter of a turn and putting the split pin back through, so I'm guessing they're adjustable, so I can't imagine the torque figure would be very high, that's if it has a figure, more likely to just be done on feel and play

[jelboy89]

The screw that holds the drum doesn't matter as the wheel studs and nuts will hold it on. As for the hubs I would say normal lb/ft as it's about putting pressure on the bearings

Jerry

[Mini Adam 85]

Yeah I gathered that the torque settings would be the same but wasn't 100% sure and thanks both for the reply I didn't think the screw holes were a major issue. Now the fun of tightening the hub nut down and seeing ifI have installed the bearings correct and that the hub is relatively free to spin

[tiger99]

Yes, standard torque, and please disregard the unsafe advice given previously. The bearings ARE NOT ADJUSTABLE, and if they are tight it is almost certainly because they are unsafe Chinese counterfeit parts, of which we have seen many on this forum.

 

Why don't you just drill and tap (1/4" UNF) the hole for the screw, using the drum as a guide? Hold it in place while drilling with a couple of wheel nuts, flat side in, and washers if needed. The screw is useful, as it keeps the drum positively in place while changing wheels.

 

Be aware that unlike the standard steel hub, the ali part can not and does not have an infinite fatigue life, and depending on the assumptions made by its designer, it may or may not be safe for high mileage use on teh road. Such parts are best restricted to low mileage track use.

[Mini Adam 85]

Yeah I think I will probably leave the hole for now until I get miffed off changing a wheel on the side of a road somewhere n the drum falls of lol,

yeah I read a lot about the bearings on here, the hub is from specialist components and as you said there I only plan for very very low mileage and track use it's not going to be an every day car but much thanks for the heads up on the fatigue life that is very useful. I don't know for sure what bearings came with the hub

[Gremlin]

Yes, standard torque, and please disregard the unsafe advice given previously. The bearings ARE NOT ADJUSTABLE, and if they are tight it is almost certainly because they are unsafe Chinese counterfeit parts, of which we have seen many on this forum.
 
Why don't you just drill and tap (1/4" UNF) the hole for the screw, using the drum as a guide? Hold it in place while drilling with a couple of wheel nuts, flat side in, and washers if needed. The screw is useful, as it keeps the drum positively in place while changing wheels.
 
Be aware that unlike the standard steel hub, the ali part can not and does not have an infinite fatigue life, and depending on the assumptions made by its designer, it may or may not be safe for high mileage use on teh road. Such parts are best restricted to low mileage track use.

I was merely putting a suggestion, it is a type I have seen and is plausible it is the same

[tiger99]

The type you saw, if on a Mini, was unsafe, and the bearings were not the correct part. There have been numerous problems here on the forum with bearings like that, which have to have the nut loosened. That is because, apart from the split pin, there is insufficient protection against the nut unscrewing. Actually, on the Mini, the failure mode would be slightly different, and if the split pin failed, the adjusting nut would wind itself up tight, causing serious bearing overheating and stub axle failure.

 

Certain other cars, including the front wheels of most rear wheel drive cars, do have adjustable bearings, but the anti-rotation washer and stub axle are designed explicitly to ensure that no torque due to bearing friction reaches the split pin, which would cause it to shear.

 

Sadly, nowadays, just because you have seen something on a car does not mean that it is proper, safe or legal. At one time the majority of spares suppliers, and their upstream manufacturers, were honest and competent, but with the shift of production of most things to China, and most spares suppliers seeking to maximise their profits regardless of the consequences, bogus safety-critical parts have become a problem of nightmare proportions. The industry in which I work has a complete ban on buying parts and materials from China, and have many precautions in place to prevent us getting supplied by counterfeit parts, but sadly it still happens. It seems that, due to their own inadequate quality control procedures, some of the Mini suppliers are being very badly affected by Chinese counterfeit parts. I personally would never buy "non-genuine" bearings, brake components, or any form of bearing or high tensile bolt which looked as if it might be of Chinese origin. The majority of bolts and bearings of Chinese origin are made of inferior materials and/or to incorrect dimensions.

 

Another possibility also emerged on the forum a while back. It seems that at least one of the major suppliers, quite possibly all of them, may be sourcing genuine Timken bearings of impeccable quality, but the company who is making them into bearing kits by adding the spacer, or selectively matching up pairs of spacerless bearings, is not doing the very critical measurement correctly. Again, if they had proper QA procedures, that would not happen.

[Captain Mainwaring]

The type you saw, if on a Mini, was unsafe, and the bearings were not the correct part. There have been numerous problems here on the forum with bearings like that, which have to have the nut loosened. That is because, apart from the split pin, there is insufficient protection against the nut unscrewing. Actually, on the Mini, the failure mode would be slightly different, and if the split pin failed, the adjusting nut would wind itself up tight, causing serious bearing overheating and stub axle failure.

 

Certain other cars, including the front wheels of most rear wheel drive cars, do have adjustable bearings, but the anti-rotation washer and stub axle are designed explicitly to ensure that no torque due to bearing friction reaches the split pin, which would cause it to shear.

 

Sadly, nowadays, just because you have seen something on a car does not mean that it is proper, safe or legal. At one time the majority of spares suppliers, and their upstream manufacturers, were honest and competent, but with the shift of production of most things to China, and most spares suppliers seeking to maximise their profits regardless of the consequences, bogus safety-critical parts have become a problem of nightmare proportions. The industry in which I work has a complete ban on buying parts and materials from China, and have many precautions in place to prevent us getting supplied by counterfeit parts, but sadly it still happens. It seems that, due to their own inadequate quality control procedures, some of the Mini suppliers are being very badly affected by Chinese counterfeit parts. I personally would never buy "non-genuine" bearings, brake components, or any form of bearing or high tensile bolt which looked as if it might be of Chinese origin. The majority of bolts and bearings of Chinese origin are made of inferior materials and/or to incorrect dimensions.

 

Another possibility also emerged on the forum a while back. It seems that at least one of the major suppliers, quite possibly all of them, may be sourcing genuine Timken bearings of impeccable quality, but the company who is making them into bearing kits by adding the spacer, or selectively matching up pairs of spacerless bearings, is not doing the very critical measurement correctly. Again, if they had proper QA procedures, that would not happen.

 

 

I'd think about that again.