11 replies to this topic

[newenglandmini]

The bulkhead A-panel attaching flange on my car was rotted and I have removed it.  I am in the process of fabricating a repair part.  I had measured the flange prior to removing it and made a repair part.  I test-fitted the repair flange to the bulkhead, and test-fitted the new A-panel to the flange.  It became apparent that the repair panel flange is too short to engage the fold-over flange on the rear of the new A-panel.  The exposed part of my repair flange is 0.3" wide.  Can someone tell me what the correct size of the flange (with the A-panel removed) should be?  My second image below shows the measurement I need.  The necessary flange size appears to be 0.6", but I would like to verify my estimate prior to proceeding.

 

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[tiger99]

Because the fit of front panels on a Mini can be problematic, I would suggest temporarily assembling the entire front end, bonnet and door, using whatever clamping devices are available, and adjust everything till you get proper panel gaps. Then adjust whatever needs adjusting (some hammer and dolly work is likely to be required somewhere), see where the A panel is positioned, and dimension the flange accordingly. Mark everthing carefully, and/or drill and Clecko it, so when you start to weld it all together, it goes back in the right place.

 

If the door gap is wrong, the A panel edge, and therefore the flange edge, is probably the easiest thing to adjust. If you can't, for practical reasons, such as not having the panels yet, or not enough clamps, fully assemble the front, you can just check the A panel to door gap, and set the flange width to get that correct, assuming your door is the original for that car, as they varied.

 

0.6" is in the right ball park. Replacement inner wings have a bit of tolerance on that dimension! When the A panel is folded over, there should be a gap between the edge of the folded part and the non-flange part of the innner wing panel, i.e. the fold does not completely cover the flange.

 

In that particular joint, I would suggest that as well as weld-through primer, you fold the flange almost but not quite right over, remove the A panel and fill the joint, and the A panel to scuttle joint, although that is sometimes brazed, with a weld-through structural adhesive, then put it back on and finish the fold with a door skinning tool, and do the 3 to 5 spot welds (one of my cars had 3, near top, bottom and middle, the other, 5, equally spaced) through A panel, flange and folded part, then of course some MIG weld top and bottom. The main function of the adhesive is to keep water out of the joint (a complete filling is better than brushed-on seam sealer), the spot and MIG welds are of course adequate structurally.

[sonikk4]

The actual flange is curved as well to mirror the contour of the A panel to door gap. A lot of replacement panels have a very roughly curved flange that may need to be trimmed back.

Offer up the A panel as it is to see what contact area you have got and go from there. I will pop up the workshop later and take a picture of that area to give you an idea of the sizes and shape.

[newenglandmini]

Tiger/Neil, thanks for the thorough responses.  I recently purchased a set of Cleco's - they're a great help in positioning panels and patches.  I've also just ordered the last few needed repair panels from Minispares.  I'm currently in the process of stripping the doors for restoration.  This will make them much lighter and easier to handle as I proceed with repair panel trial fitting.

 

Tiger, I haven't been able to find any weld-through adhesives.  The panel adhesives I have found have notes that state that they are not compatible with welding.  Can you provide a reference to the type of product you've suggested?

[sonikk4]

Hi Corey I won't be going up the workshop today but will be there tomorrow. However to give you an idea of the flange go to the Project Paddy link in my signature and then go to page 4and 5.

You will see the shape of the flitch return on there. And that was the original panel that I repaired there.

[newenglandmini]

Neil, nice work on Paddy!  I'm following the same path...remove all of the rusted bits and weld in the new stuff.  It would be very helpful if you can provide the flange dimension.

[tiger99]

Sorry, I did omit to mention suppliers of suitable adhesives. In this case the objective is to fill and seal the joint permanently, to keep water out (you can't glue a Mini together because the car was not designed that way) so the structural properties are secondary. But here is one source of suitable materials:

 

http://www.aa.carbor...r-CA5232(1).pdf

 

Also, 3M, Henkel and Norton Automotive, probably many more, have suitable materials.

[newenglandmini]

Thanks Tiger.  This looks like the right material.

 

I fabricated another flange repair bit.  I test-fitted the A-panel and learned that the flange needs to be curved.  Neil had mentioned that in his note, but I had missed that detail.  Now I can see why I was so far off the mark when I measured the original flange remnant.  I can now easily mark the curvature, remove the flange bit and trim as necessary.  I recently purchased a sheet metal shear and it works a treat!  It cuts very cleanly and straight and makes panel fabrication much easier.

 

http://www.harborfre...hear-68199.html

[sonikk4]

Ahh at least you see what i mean about the curvature of the return. Never did get to the workshop as things conspired against me so sorry about that. 

[newenglandmini]

No worries mate!  I've test-fitted the doors, wings and A-panel.  I then trimmed the flange to match.  Perfect fit!  The Cleco clips are worth their weight in gold!  I've had the bits together and apart many times in the test-fitting process, and the clips make doing so quick, easy and accurate.

 

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I also test-fitted the bonnet.  I was disappointed to note a large gap (0.3") between the wing and bonnet.  The flitch panels are original and have not been moved and the bonnet is also original and correctly aligned to the front panel.  The only image that shows the pre-project gap was taken the day I brought the car home (covered in road salt!).  The gap is hard to see in that image, but it does look large.

 

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Three questions:

 

1. How large should the gap be?
2. Is a gap of 0.3" common for a Mini?
3. Is it possible to adjust the gap?

 

 

[sonikk4]

0.3" is reasonable although it is possible to tighten the gap but you will need to get a bit medieval with the wings. You will need to force them over and this may entail trimming some metal of the wing flange if required.

The use of self tapping screws comes into play here as using these to hold the wing in place will enable to check your gaps.

[newenglandmini]

Thanks Neil.  I'm awaiting my recently ordered scuttle repair panel.  I'll check-fit how it fits and then consider trimming 0.1" from the wing flange to tighten the gaps.  The electric shears I referred to above make trimming an easy task.