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Rust Patches In Mot?


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#1 The Joker

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 07:50 PM

Hi there!

 

I've spotted these pretty bad rust patches, and I was wondering if these can fail an MOT?

 

In addition to this what other sections should I look out for before an MOT? I understand rust is pretty big but I'm wondering at what point does it become mot failable

 

Sorry for the unintelligent questions :P

 

Thanks

 

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#2 Austin mini 30

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 07:56 PM

I'm not sure if it would fail, depends if the rust is in structural areas I suppose. But I can tell you where to check. Bad patches on mind were in the corners of the boot and under the carpet next to the accelerator.

#3 cambiker71

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 07:58 PM

Can you push a hole in it with moderate finger pressure? If so then it fails straight away, we use a small plastic headed hammer during the test for tapping suspect areas after the "press hard" test, sometimes you can feel the corroded area give a little but can't push through it or tap a hole with the hammer, in this case it will get a pass and advisory note saying what we've found.

 The hammer should not be used to lever a hole or punch through, find a classic friendly MOT station and ask them what they think!

 

the hammer, it's handle is about 5 inches long so not huge! ....

985675_zpsadf4642b.jpg


Edited by cambiker71, 30 March 2014 - 08:02 PM.


#4 The Joker

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 08:09 PM

Ah I see, thank you :) The doors seems very solid but underneath it seems a little weak but only just strong enough... I guess I'll find out at the next MOT :) My floor pans seem to look in bad condition but again they seem fairly solid for now... Thanks for your help :) 



#5 1984mini25

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 08:19 PM

Can you push a hole in it with moderate finger pressure? If so then it fails straight away, we use a small plastic headed hammer during the test for tapping suspect areas after the "press hard" test, sometimes you can feel the corroded area give a little but can't push through it or tap a hole with the hammer, in this case it will get a pass and advisory note saying what we've found.

 The hammer should not be used to lever a hole or punch through, find a classic friendly MOT station and ask them what they think!

 

the hammer, it's handle is about 5 inches long so not huge! ....

985675_zpsadf4642b.jpg

 

or if you happen to get a tester that clearly hasn't been 'getting any' for a while, then expect them to then scrutinise and scrape off every last bit of flaky underseal with a screwdriver and then repeatedly stab a 5p size hole in the rear subframe and then fail it. Witch is exactly what happened to me a few years back.

 

Anyways, rust on doors, providing the door open and closes properly, isn't about to fall of and any rust isn't causing a sharp /dangerous edge, it will pass.

 

Rust on the sills, you could try the screwdriver test and if it seams sold and you haven't stabbed a load of holes it will pass. But even if they are rusty, but solid, it would still be best to wire brush (either by hand or in a drill) any lose rust and paint then prime and top coat/underseal to help them last a bit longer.


Edited by 1984mini25, 30 March 2014 - 08:19 PM.


#6 sonikk4

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 08:23 PM

That sill looks like its been patched already so give it a bit of a prod. The door is fine with no sharp edges. I have seen far far worse pass a MOT.

 

The floors are likely to give you grief if they are holed.



#7 tiger99

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 09:50 AM

The MOT test is not nearly aggressive enough, considering the safety implications of structural rust, however there is not much else to do it the methodology is limited to tapping with a "toy" hammer. A better method would be to do a torsional stiffness test, but that would need some heavy and expensive equipment, and a lot of man-hours attaching it to the vehicle. I can just imagine oversills and the bodger's other delight, inner sill repair panels, buckling during the test, not forgetting heelboards where the subframe mount stiffners have not been welded to the inner sills. Oh, and flip fronts flopping.....

 

However, to keep to the OP's immediate needs, the answer is that only the MOT tester, doing all that he is allowed to do, can tell whether it is a pass or fail. From a distance, we can only give meaningful opinions if we can see holes within the prescribed distance of subframe, suspension and seat belt mounts etc, but we can't feel for weakness.

 

But what I would add to the opinions already given is that, as in any rust problem with any car, the sooner it is properly restored, the better, because rust spreads, and it will be cheaper to fix it properly now, rather than later. Everyone's economic situation is different, and frankly none of our business, as we respect privacy, so only the OP can assess whether he should have some cheapish temporary repairs, which will need re-done properly later, or maybe take out a loan and have the lot done properly, once and for all. Having had two Minis ruined by cheap "MOT standard" repairs in the past, my feelings nowadays are that while interest rates remain low, I would likely get a loan to finance doing it properly. The OP may of course be fairly affluent, and can pay cash, again not our business, but in that case I would strongly suggest going for a full restoration job asap.

 

Actually, there would be an interesting opportunity for a finance company, in partnership with a body restorer. Lend the money to fix classic cars, based on the value of the restored car being more than the loan of course, and their being comprehensive insurance cover. It might not be viable on basic models, but a nicely restored special edition may have sufficient value to secure a loan of at least a sizeable part of the restoration cost.



#8 The Joker

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 08:38 PM

Thanks guys, it seems fairly solid but hollow and thin, it doesn't seem to flex but like you can see it does definitely seem like it's been bodged before with filler. With regards to restoring it I would like to do so soon however due to my lack of any place to do it, money and this being my only transport it's kind of difficult.

 

Thanks for your opinions and tips it's greatly appreciated :) Feel free to give me some more tips! I need them aha

 

:)



#9 Captain Mainwaring

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 05:33 AM

The MOT test is not nearly aggressive enough, considering the safety implications of structural rust, however there is not much else to do it the methodology is limited to tapping with a "toy" hammer. A better method would be to do a torsional stiffness test, but that would need some heavy and expensive equipment, and a lot of man-hours attaching it to the vehicle. I can just imagine oversills and the bodger's other delight, inner sill repair panels, buckling during the test, not forgetting heelboards where the subframe mount stiffners have not been welded to the inner sills. Oh, and flip fronts flopping.....

 

However, to keep to the OP's immediate needs, the answer is that only the MOT tester, doing all that he is allowed to do, can tell whether it is a pass or fail. From a distance, we can only give meaningful opinions if we can see holes within the prescribed distance of subframe, suspension and seat belt mounts etc, but we can't feel for weakness.

 

But what I would add to the opinions already given is that, as in any rust problem with any car, the sooner it is properly restored, the better, because rust spreads, and it will be cheaper to fix it properly now, rather than later. Everyone's economic situation is different, and frankly none of our business, as we respect privacy, so only the OP can assess whether he should have some cheapish temporary repairs, which will need re-done properly later, or maybe take out a loan and have the lot done properly, once and for all. Having had two Minis ruined by cheap "MOT standard" repairs in the past, my feelings nowadays are that while interest rates remain low, I would likely get a loan to finance doing it properly. The OP may of course be fairly affluent, and can pay cash, again not our business, but in that case I would strongly suggest going for a full restoration job asap.

 

Actually, there would be an interesting opportunity for a finance company, in partnership with a body restorer. Lend the money to fix classic cars, based on the value of the restored car being more than the loan of course, and their being comprehensive insurance cover. It might not be viable on basic models, but a nicely restored special edition may have sufficient value to secure a loan of at least a sizeable part of the restoration cost.

 

 

Oalah...ckckckck....

 

Wouldn't it just be easier to do what the Japanese do? Send all their old cars to a nation where people drive around in old junk?

 

As for torsional stiffness - there are plenty of brandy new cars that flex all over the shop but are perfectly safe - how would you go about gauging safe from the non-safe?






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