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Need To Wire An Ignition Warning Light?


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#1 minipower101

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 07:56 AM

Hi everyone.

I noticed the other day on my volt gauge that my mini wasn't charging. I found that my ignition light on the dash wasn't coming on at all. This was due to the wire being broken off on the back. I thought I could just wire another led in and all would be solved. The volt gauge was reading 13 and a half ish, but it only lasted for about 7 miles :( all the way home the LED had a slight glow and my mini wasn't charging.

Do I need a certain type of LED or certain thickness/amps wire. The one that I did wire in did have really skinny wires so I wondered if it just couln't handle it. Any help much appreciated. Thanks

#2 Dan

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 08:24 AM

With the standard type alternator you can't use just an LED, it won't allow enough current to run the alternator. It's designed to be a 2.2 watt filament bulb. There needs to be the equivalent resistance to a 2.2 watt bulb between the ignition live supply and the brown/yellow cable. You can put a resistor in parallel with the LED provided the total resistance is appropriate. Search the forum for posts from DK Lawson relating to this, he has posted with the relevant values a few times.

#3 minipower101

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 08:52 AM

Thanks for the quick reply :) ok I will have a look. Some of the LED light say they have a built in resistorg. Would any of these be suitable?

http://pages.ebay.co...id=261365676791

http://www.minisport...t-red-lens.html

#4 minipower101

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 08:52 AM

*resistor

#5 Ethel

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 08:54 AM

I'd just replace the bulb, it'll tell you more than an led.



#6 cal844

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 08:55 AM

Its easier getting the correct bulb!

#7 minipower101

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 09:37 AM

It's a custom dash, which already had some kind of LED thing in there. I can't seem to find what was already in there. Cheers

#8 Dan

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 09:54 AM

No, the included resistor is just there to limit current and protect the LED. Whether they state it or not almost all LEDs that aren't just a discreet component but are designed to fit as a lamp in a socket will have a current limiting resistor. Without this they will fail hooked up to your car. In fact if yours just glows dimly all the time it may have blown in this way.

#9 minipower101

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 10:08 AM

Ah, I see. Yeah it probably has then. Thanks :)

#10 Ethel

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 10:27 AM

You'd need 2 resistances, one to protect the led and another to allow the correct current to flow to and from the alternator.



#11 tiger99

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 11:22 AM

It is more complicated than that, because the warning light does, under certain conditions, see reversed voltage, which will blow a LED, resistor or not, so it needs a bridge rectifier as well, in this particular case. In other instances, the LEDs may have the bridge rectifier built in, so that they always work, regardless of how they are wired in, but I would not guarantee that.

 

There is potentially a very big problem in using a resistor to shunt the LED anyway, because when hot, the resistance of the 2.2W bulb is about 95 ohms at the maximum 14.4 volts. However, it will only be about 20 ohms or less when cold, and can therefore supply a much greater initial current to magnetise the alternator when starting. If the alternator designers have relied on the low resistance of the bulb, when cold, the alternator may never start up properly with an LED and 95 ohm resistor, or may give other problems if you use a 20 ohm resistor. Because all of this is pure conjecture, and it is never wise to go blindly modifying anything, especially electrical things where many subtle problems await the unwary, the safest thing by far is to use the proper 2.2 W bulb, which will work, every time.

 

You can of course cheat, and wire in the 2.2W bulb somewhere out of the way, such as under the bonnet, with a LED, bridge rectifier, and something like a 2.7k 1/4W resistor where you want to see it. That will give about 5mA through the LED, which will be bright enough, while the bulb will take care of magnetising the alternator, so every possible constraint will be satisfied and it will work correctly, every time, for every model of alternator.



#12 Captain Mainwaring

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 11:30 AM

No, the included resistor is just there to limit current and protect the LED. Whether they state it or not almost all LEDs that aren't just a discreet component but are designed to fit as a lamp in a socket will have a current limiting resistor. Without this they will fail hooked up to your car. In fact if yours just glows dimly all the time it may have blown in this way.

In this case the parallel resistor required is to actually increase the current.



#13 Ethel

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 11:40 AM

Good detailed reply there, thanks tiger.

 

The bulb also makes a better indicator as you can judge its brightness and, as it'll light the same with that reversed voltage, you can look at the brightness and engine revs to get an idea if the battery or alternator is under performing.

 

Brightens with revs: alternator voltage is increasing over battery voltage, battery may not be charging

Dims with revs: low alternator output, car still running off the battery.

 

With an led you might only know you were getting a flat battery.



#14 Ethel

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 11:44 AM

 

No, the included resistor is just there to limit current and protect the LED. Whether they state it or not almost all LEDs that aren't just a discreet component but are designed to fit as a lamp in a socket will have a current limiting resistor. Without this they will fail hooked up to your car. In fact if yours just glows dimly all the time it may have blown in this way.

In this case the parallel resistor required is to actually increase the current.

 

... to the alternator. I think Dan was explaining why leds need resistors generally to survive in over voltage applications.



#15 minipower101

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 07:28 PM

Thanks for all the great replies! I've found a warning light that has a bulb. Would this be ok to wire in? Thanks




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