17 replies to this topic

[Stimpy]

This is really to those electricians out there.

 

Please could someone tell me the journey that takes place - cable-wise - when you push the indicator stalk forward to light up the main beam?

 

This is on a late pre-ignition mini (rad on the side, no steering wheel cushion).

 

I've been rewiring many parts of my mini because it had a whole host of electrical issues and I've introduced a cbs-online fuse control board (I highly recommend) which takes over from the 4(?) fuse holder on the bulkhead.  It's a project that is taking ages but I've introduced a few luxuries on the way.

 

When I pull back on the stalk the main beam works but push forward and it doesn't

 

You can clearly see the contacts are different in the switch.

 

Firstly - does it involve the 'blue only' cable?  second - does the blue wire carry +ve to the switch in the stalk or does it carry it away when the switch is activated?

 

This has really stumped me because the main beam side of things has been working until recently and I haven't changed anything!

 

Does main beam use an inline fuse or one of the fuses on the old box of fuses (on the bulkhead)?

 

One thing to note - the contacts to the indicator stalk were loose and became disengaged so there's a possibility that I connected something back on wrongly but I highly doubt that due to how each connector 'hung' against the stalk (i.e. despite it being disconnected they've been in that position so long that they sit facing 'their' pins).

 

Usually when you flash your lights both filaments light up (if you normal lights are on).  When you put main beam on via the switch it turns off the normal beam.  Is there any issue with both filaments lighting (i.e. normal and main) when switching main beam on? (I'm thinking of workarounds as well as trying to fix it as it should be).

 

So - apart from those details  what I would really like to know what happens when you push that stalk forward (i.e. how the circuit works).

 

Any help would be brilliant 

cheers

 

 

 

[Ethel]

Brown wire goes from the solenoid to the fusebox, changes to a purple wire after going through the fuse. Purple wire supplies the interior light (often the cause if the fuse blows), aalso supplies column stalk for horn & head light flasher. Wire to horn is purple/black, flasher uses the main beam wires - blue/white.

 

It's a different circuit to main beam, which you get if you push the stalk forward when the lights are on.

[KernowCooper]

Does this help,its all components and labeled by wiring colour

 

Attached Files

•  Head Light Circuit.jpg   59.12K   31 downloads

[Stimpy]

Thank you both - and that diagram is excellent - I was going to give up but the diagram might just help me.

 

I'm installing new customised switches

 

I made the amateur mistake of supplying live to the side lights, then feeding the positive off that as the feed to the main lights switch.  All is was ok (side lights would come on, and headlights (a separate button) would only work if the side lights were on first).  Except i messed up 'permanent full beam'.

 

I should have remembered that the current goes through the indicator stalk.

 

Just a quickie - why don't they make it so both filaments come on with main beam rather than just switch from one to another?

[Stimpy]

My thought was that 2 filaments active means extra heat I was just seeing if anyone would say the same and not just react to my opinion.  As it happens the wiring has gone well, I've made each section modular - with 4 to 12 [pin] socket/plugs and there is a control board from cbs-online (if you check it out you can see why they are so good, especially if building a kit car).  My rewiring is precisely to do with it being dodgy in the first place.

 

To KernowCooper - the lighting switch circuit is separated into two switches in place of the 'two-position' version normally found in a late mini.  You switch the side lights on and that circuit is complete - the headlight circuit only works if the side-lights are switched on (the switches illuminate accordingly).  Unfortunately during a mix-up the supply to the headlight switch was tee'd off the battery supply and thus not going through the stalk switch.

 

If your diagram is correct then when the headlight switch is switched on, 12v are supplied via the thick blue wire to the stalk switch.  Power is then complete if the stalk is in the normal position (as can be seen by the copper contacts).  By pushing the stalk forward one circuit is broken and another one is bridged.  I remember this now.  I also remember that if the main headlights aren't working the last place you might look is the indicator stalk but if the female connection slips off the male (indicator side) terminal then you don't get lights.

 

Thanks again for the diagram - knowing the colours is a great guide to the pin positions on the stalk.

[Stimpy]

tiger - incidentally part of the re-routing is precisely to do with the SPOF caused by a single fuse lighting design - i.e. built in redundancy.

[Stimpy]

Brown wire goes from the solenoid to the fusebox, changes to a purple wire after going through the fuse. Purple wire supplies the interior light (often the cause if the fuse blows), aalso supplies column stalk for horn & head light flasher. Wire to horn is purple/black, flasher uses the main beam wires - blue/white.

 

It's a different circuit to main beam, which you get if you push the stalk forward when the lights are on.

Cheers - your notes back up what the diagram shows

[KernowCooper]

The diagram is a factory wiring one I just added the info and the colours.

[Stimpy]

To KernowCooper,

 

Who do I make the cheque payable to?

 

Seriously though, your diagram and the very fact that you labelled up the colours and info, has possibly saved me hours of continuity tests and (heaven forbid) ripping up carpets etc.  Having enlarged and printed out the diagram I took it outside tonight and got it sorted in less than an hour!

 

It's a slightly different set-up as (see my initial post) I've more or less re-wired most things to use a proper fusebox and a junction box (if anyone is interested in the junction box ask and I'll provide a link) - nevertheless - 'decoding' your diagram (sort of reverse-engineering) to my set up was quite easy and now everything is functioning correctly (dim, dip, MB with no dip and 'Flash + dip).

 

Thank you very very very much - you've saved a few hours of my life to do something else - daft - with

Edited by Stimpy, 01 May 2014 - 10:55 PM.

[Captain Mainwaring]

If they did that, the bulbs would melt.

 

Please do not mess about with your headlight circuit, unless you know what you are doing. Sadly, you have demonstrated rather well that you don't. In particular, you MUST NOT introduce any single point failure mechanisms, other than those which are already there, and that means that you can't add fuses unless you fully understand what you are doing. The headlights both going out suddenly in a dark, twisty road is likely to be the last thing that you are ever aware of, and irrational messing about is a good way of making that happen.

 

Have you told your insurance company of your bodging, which most certainly has increased the risk?

 

 

Oh dear. This forum would shut down if bodgers had to notify their bodges to their insurers. Just read about some of the lashed together rust buckets that people drive around in.

 

Are you seriously trying to tell me that the Mini electrical system was ever designed with some element of failsafe and redundancy in mind? As an engineer dealing with fully redundancy control systems, system that will swap processors and I/O in 1 cycle in the event of a failure, I also kind of understand the way things should be done - the Mini lighting system is laughable in it's naivety and I think your a little bit out of gear picking on our friend, who may well know quite a bit more about systems than you give him credit for.

 

Oh, and 55/50W with both filaments running together won't melt the envelope, it may well melt the lampholder, but it won't melt the glass. Try it.

[sonikk4]

Rather than belittle the OP and then use scaremongering tactics try pointing him in the right direction to what he should do without being dramatic.

We as a forum are here to help, not chastise because some particular thing is not done to one persons high expectations. If a person does not realise what they are doing then by all means point them in the right direction to the information they need to achieve the desired result.

kernowCooper has done just that in this particular case.

If you have something constructive and helpful to post then fire away, anything else will be reviewed and if it serves no purpose other than to alienate or been seen as scaremongering, belittling etc then it will be deleted.

[Ethel]

Running both filaments would be pointless though. You'd have a very bright dipped beam pool just in front of you that would make it harder for your eyes to see what's lit by the unimproved full beam.

[KernowCooper]

+1 on that the beam pattern from one lamp with both dip/main on is a bit messy in a beam setter

[Stimpy]

 

If they did that, the bulbs would melt.

 

Please do not mess about with your headlight circuit, unless you know what you are doing. Sadly, you have demonstrated rather well that you don't. In particular, you MUST NOT introduce any single point failure mechanisms, other than those which are already there, and that means that you can't add fuses unless you fully understand what you are doing. The headlights both going out suddenly in a dark, twisty road is likely to be the last thing that you are ever aware of, and irrational messing about is a good way of making that happen.

 

Have you told your insurance company of your bodging, which most certainly has increased the risk?

 

 

Oh dear. This forum would shut down if bodgers had to notify their bodges to their insurers. Just read about some of the lashed together rust buckets that people drive around in.

 

Are you seriously trying to tell me that the Mini electrical system was ever designed with some element of failsafe and redundancy in mind? As an engineer dealing with fully redundancy control systems, system that will swap processors and I/O in 1 cycle in the event of a failure, I also kind of understand the way things should be done - the Mini lighting system is laughable in it's naivety and I think your a little bit out of gear picking on our friend, who may well know quite a bit more about systems than you give him credit for.

 

Oh, and 55/50W with both filaments running together won't melt the envelope, it may well melt the lampholder, but it won't melt the glass. Try it.

 

 

Ahhh - a fellow I.T. professional.  Yes, redundancy is key in my line of work to - right up to DR and hot swapping.  It's not uncommon to have 3 or even 4th level redundancy.  The wiring in a normal memory is a joke - however it's basically an evolved loom from 1959 where things like 'safety' where an optional extra that wasn't available.

 

How many times has a mini had a 'stroke' (i.e. the lighting on one side decides to pack up, and then mysteriously work fine again the next day).

 

And 5 fuses in a plastic matchbox under the hinge of the bonnet?  Great idea!

 

Thanks for your words - it actually makes a difference when someone criticises or compliments attempts at improving things.  It can change a person's feeling from 'I can't be bothered' to 'I'll get this sorted' or vice versa.

 

Forums like this can be so helpful when someone comes up with replies like KernowCooper's which addressed my issue directly.

 

KC: if you have the colour coding for all the switches that would be great for the records!!   

[Stimpy]

Running both filaments would be pointless though. You'd have a very bright dipped beam pool just in front of you that would make it harder for your eyes to see what's lit by the unimproved full beam.

 

This was another worry.  I really didn't want to bypass the stalk's switching mechanism just because I didn't know which socket comes off which plug (which was my problem).

 

This could have been a show stopper - but now I can carry on.

 

I'll have to list out the extras I've brought to the system when I'm done (e.g., petrol low light, handbrake on warning, automatic darkness 'lights on' system, etc