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Mpi Intermittent Cut Out


Best Answer fergiemike , 13 March 2015 - 02:02 PM

OK Finally got to the bottom of this problem.

Code reader said 13 Fuel Pump Relay or Purge Valve did component test on both and reader returned OK.

As discussed earlier I changed the main replay pack as this was most likely cause but that made no difference. (80 quid gone there)

So for last month I have been running with purge valve disconnected (just mutli-plug disconnected) and its never missed a beat.

Then last week once it was warmed up I reconnected the purge valve and guess what; it cut out 3 times in 2 miles.

Disconnected again and has run fine.

Took the valve off and tested on a battery and seems to open and close OK so guess its either sticking sometimes or its a wiring fault between the valve and ECU.

Does not seem to affect performance or economy (still getting 40/gal which is more than my Bini cooper s) so think I will just leave it disconnected as new part is 90 odd quid there are some second hand ones on ebay but they might just do same.

MOT in a couple of weeks so will see if it has affected the emissions figures. 

 

Anyway I am very happy its sorted car is now my daily drive.

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions

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#1 fergiemike

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 01:34 PM

Hi

I have a 1998 Mpi cooper sport.

It has an intermittent problem where the engine just cuts out.

It can go for weeks then happen several times in a couple of miles.

Usually when pulling away just get going and change out of 1st to 2nd and it stops.

Always re-starts straight away but you do have to stop and then start again you cannot just try to bump start is again while rolling.

 

Had a local garage put it in a diagnostics machine and the only codes were:

5 Ambient air temp short circuit to ground

25 Ambient air sensor

13 Oil temp sensor voltage too high

23 Oil temp sensor.

 

Looking at the wiring diagram the oil sensor is not connected to the ECU so not sure what that means. (However oil temp gauge does not work that a job on the list to be done)

 

Could the Air temp sensor be the cause? The local garage did not think that would affect make it stop.

 

I have had all the sensor out and cleaned connections also ECU out and cleaned connections, cleaned all relays and earth points.

 

Any ideas helpful before I have to take it somewhere for what might be an expensive investigation.

Thanks



#2 bloke

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 09:56 PM

Okay, so you're in luck, all four faults that you have are because the mini doesn't have those sensors attached to it, so you can ignore them, they come up on mine as well. The ambient air temperature sensor was fitted to the Rover 75, which uses the same ECU.

 

As for cutting out, it could be unfortunately a number of things, from intermittent wiring to the electric fuel pump, to wires behind the carburettor which short out due to the carburettor rubbing against the bulkhead. It's worth checking to make sure that the engine ground lead is still making decent contact, as this can cause all sorts of problems, which I found with my car. This also included unusual fuelling, and wild sensor readings as well. 

 

There is also the possibility that the ECU has dry joints inside on the connectors, however this is very rare and they are usually extremely reliable. 

 

The other thing to check is if water has leaked down the back of the screen and has water damaged the immobiliser. You'll find this in the passenger compartment behind the dashboard, is held on with two screws and a couple of connectors. Once removed you can gently pry the immobiliser open and check for corrosion, which can be cleaned off using a contact cleaner and toothbrush. 

 

It's in here, that the relays are that could cause the cutting out of your engine, mine had dry joints on, and once resoldered, fingers crossed, I have not had any re-occurrences of any problems. 

 

Remember, if you decide to grab a secondhand immobiliser, you'll need to match up the ECU and immobiliser, otherwise the car will never start. This can be done at the same place that you had the diagnostics machine plugged in. 

 

Generally, faults like this are usually electrical in nature, in other words a connection that is not being made or being shorted out, usually due to vibration as you drive along. Look for fraid wires where they go through the bodywork, most of these have rubber grommets, but they're not always fitted as well as they could be. ;-)

 

I can't think of anything else offhand, but I'm sure the minute I hit the post button I'll think of half a dozen other things :-)

 

Sorry this is all a bit long winded, but as I found out to my own cost, these electronic minis with intermittent faults can sometimes be a challenge. However, once sorted, they are fantastic cars, and are an absolute delight on the motorway. I had to drive for five hours straight the other day, and got out of the car feeling pretty good, whereas with other minis I have owned in the past, I have needed traction after a long journey :-)

 

I hope some of this helps you find the fault that you are looking for, the very best of luck.

 

All the best, Bloke


Edited by bloke, 12 June 2014 - 09:58 PM.


#3 FlyingScot

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 09:39 AM

Can you be more specific? Does it cut out only after running for a while or can it fail to start from cold?

Unlikely to be ECU or 5AS (alarm) as these are robust.

Double check your earth cables - sometimes the look sound but are rotten under the outer.

FS

#4 fergiemike

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 08:06 PM

Hi Thanks for the replies

I have had all the earth connections off and all looked OK cleaned them up and put back so I think they are all OK however I also think its an electrical problem damaged wire somewhere.

 

It can happen at any time hot or cold always re-starts first turn of key.

For me it has always cut out during setting off while changing up but my daughter who also drives it has had it cut during slowing down and in slow moving traffic.

On Monday I had it running in the garage and started messing with wiring to see of I could get it to cut out when wiggling connections etc.

Oddly since then its gone without a problem and done about 150 miles.

 

I have it booked into what was the rover dealer to get a spare key fob and see if they can find anything. Typically I bet it will not cut out when they have it. 

Was also taking to a fellow mini owner yesterday and they thought it could be fuel related but I would have expected it to cough a bit before stopping if it was fuel which it does not do it just stops completely.

I will report back after tomorrow diagnostics.



#5 FlyingScot

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 10:36 AM

The thing to remember about fuel injection cars is that most times it isn't the complicated stuff that goes wrong.
It's the wiring or sensors. Since mini wiring was never very good adding fuel injection just complicates the fault diagnosis!!
It's a pain but a methodical approach wins the day

FS

#6 fergiemike

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 09:14 AM

OK back from the old rover dealer and interestingly the rover diagnostics did not show any of the 4 codes I listed above (5,25,13,23) after looking around it seems this is often the case with some code reader.

There code reader showed a fail in the replay pack (fuel pump relay) and the old chap there was sure this would be the cause.

 

However since booking it into the garage and wiggling connections to try to get it to fail it has not done it since.

So garage recommended waiting to see if happens again then bring to check again to see if same fault has re-appeared.

 

Guess could buy the relay anyway but at £60 I think I'll hang on a bit and use it every day for a while to see what happens.

Did wonder if it was worth taking it apart to see if the connections inside looked bad.



#7 Guess-Works.com

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 09:25 AM

All bar one of the intermittent failures I've come across on injection cars, have been related to the MFU, or the relay pack which sits on top of the servo... Replace that and see if the problem goes away.



#8 FlyingScot

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 09:03 PM

Or open it and clean up the tracks and resolder the connections. Over time you can get corrosion or micro cracks around the soldered joints.

FS

#9 fergiemike

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 02:43 PM

Resurrecting this because problem seems to be back in last month or so.

 

After I cleaned up the relay pack it seemed to go away and was ok for a few months (I think that was just luck). Then problem came back in early December so I changed the relay pack for a new one.

All was well for a couple of weeks then it’s back again and seems to be getting worse (stopped 3 times in 10 miles today) but that maybe because I am driving it every day at the moment.

 

So engine just cuts out on acceleration and deceleration. Have to roll to a stop then re-start. It always re-starts first turn off key dash lights are still on so now complete electrical fail.

 

I am thinking now it’s nothing to do with the relay pack but still maybe electrical. Would a fuel blockage like bits floating around in tank or filter have these symtoms? Or what about cam sensor?

 

Any suggestions on the best way to diagnose.



#10 FlyingScot

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 02:58 PM

You seem to be drawing the conclusion that it's the same fault, I'm not so sure....
I am confused with your sentence about "dash lights are still on so now complete electrical fail" can you explain a bit more?
I would be getting it on a code reader as if as I suspect one of the components is on its way out. Often with old electrical sensors they work okay when cold and after heating up either give out of spec or no signal.
To be honest without diagnostic gear it's going to be a long slog to get the root cause of this, although I am sure you will get plenty of suggestions as to what it might be....
Are you saying it now does not start at all?

FS

#11 fergiemike

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 03:23 PM

Cheers

typo I meant "dash lights are still on so not complete electrical fail"

 

Its still going it always restarts first turn of key.

Last time I took it to get codes read it was fuel pump relay which is why I changes replay pack on top of brake servo.

Could take it back to get re-read but they seem to like charging me £30 every time guess just have to bit the bullet and payup



#12 Fast Ivan

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 06:00 PM

check the coil resistance



#13 fergiemike

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 03:41 PM

OK got it a code reader and showing:

13 Fuel Pump Replay or Purge Valve or MIL Lamp OR

 

This is same as before I have put a new replay pack on what anyone suggest next

Whats the purge valve and MIL Lamp and how can I test those?

 

Also the code has an OR and the end but nothing after it is that normal.

 

Used the reader to do all the driving actuator tests and all showed OK Is it worth post up the figures from the component data?

 

I have cleared the codes now so will re-read when it occurs again



#14 FlyingScot

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 06:21 PM

Sounds like a generic code reader... There is no MIL lamp on these.

FS

#15 Steve220

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 08:43 PM

Have you checked the condition of the earth braid between the engine and tie mount?




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